routine infant circumcision

Cahos Rahne VelozaAs I said, here in the Philippines & I guess in other Asian countries as well. Circumcision is considered a rite of passage into manhood. And as such, Filipino boys are often circumcised at around the ages of 10 to 12, as those years are considered the ages by which boys turn into men, with all that puberty thing & all. And quite frankly, most boys here rather undergo the traditional method of circumcision, performed by the village healer (not a professional doctor), using a sharp blade that the guy uses to cut foreskin off. Yeah going onto a hospital operation table maybe "safer" or more "ethical", but tradition is more important than all that "neatness".Oh I forgot to mention, I hated the "style" of my circumcision, because it was my bastard father's choice, not mine. Frankly I wanted the "Filipino Cut", but that asshole instructed the doctor to give me the "German V cut". :PP.S.What's female Circumcision anyway?

Oh my, where to start?first of all, there are several types of female circ. The one that is most discussed in the media is the one people think is the ONLY (ie. mutilation or removal of the clitoris and sewing up) this is not the only method. There is the removal of the clitoral hood (gross if you think about is but MOST comparable to male circ) as well as removal of the labia, to "help" with cleanliness, discharge (in men, smegma") odor and other NATURAL things) so it's a very accurate comparison even though pro-circ parents HATE that the idea of comparing FGM (female genital mutilation) could ever be compared with RIC (routine infant circumcision)."Yeah going onto a hospital operation table maybe "safer" or more "ethical", but tradition is more important than all that "neatness"."really? So "tradition" is more important than the physical safety of the child? This seems completely insane to me, I'm very sorry. "safe" is not something to put in quotes, nor is "ethical." These things are basically the ONLY things that should ever matter to a parent of a child! Is he safe? Is he being treated with the respect and dignity he deserves to be healthy? To brush those off seems Twilight Zone to me.

That's your problem, you only see things in your eyes, using your point of view. You should get to know the people whose culture & tradition is confusing you. Just because your culture maybe high & mighty it doesn't mean others not following yours is insignificant & irrational.As I said, here all boys eagerly await to have a circumcision & it will never change. You might get disgusted or feel outraged, but ask any Filipino boy who's falling in long cues waiting for that communal razor blade to cut off their penis's foreskin & they'd gladly reply "I can't wait". Ask them if they're scared, "No, I'm not because a boy has to be circumcised to become a man". Ask if they don't mind the pain, "That's part of the tradition".I'd like to make your stomach roll with the very gory details of how the traditional Filipino way of giving circumcisions is done, just to enlighten you. First, you are made to pull down your pants & underpants to present your penis (the "patient" must not have a boner for this procedure, no I'm not joking). Then the village circumcisor, again as I said, may or may not be a Doctor will give you a piece of Guava leaf to chew on, this is used later on. Then he makes you sit on this stool that has a small protruding portion where he positions your penis to prep for the procedure. He then pulls on some of the penis's foreskin for removal. He then uses a razor, the kind barbers use on the hair (on that note, Barbers are sometimes the ones who do this rite) & positions it on top of the section of foreskin to be removed. Sometimes the guy has an assistant that helps in the procedure. He or his assistant then uses a wooden tool to tap hard on the razor to cut the foreskin, like a guilotine. Then he instructs the patient to spit the chewed Guava leaf on his freshly operated penis & he's sent off his way. For 2 to 3 weeks, some boys would wear skirts because it'd be painful to wear shorts, Yeouch!As I said, I wish I experienced that ;)So you see, no no matter how you justify your cause, as long as there are people who value tradition, these rites of passage will never disappear.

so again, I ask you: are you also for the act of female genital cutting? Most of the world is horrified at the idea of it however it seems quite similar to what you have just described to me. So I have to wonder why we actively protect the girl's genitals and yet allow what you just spoke about happen to boys all the time. What do you think?

Well, if you ask me, like you with my explanation of our tradition, I was shocked & personally don't agree with female circumcision. But, & this is a big but, I won't go out & protest because, if those who practice that see it as something they consider a part of their culture, then my word will have no meaning to them. Yeah in my eyes it may not be to my liking, but to them, who cares with what I think or say. It's only by their own volition if they decide to stop it or not & we shouldn't force our opinions on them :)

If it's their decision alright, but if it's not, then the answer is no, that's all I think...
P.S- I skipped that gory part :P

my biology teacher said that circumcision is necessary for cleaning the area, so it is a method for safe sex, no diseases and whatnotand, its shape made it easier to enter the female's cha-cha (thank you calvin for the expression, i couldn't write anything dirty)

Replying to #26

That is a complete load of bollocks.

DevilDinah · #26my biology teacher said that circumcision is necessary for cleaning the area, so it is a method for safe sex, no diseases and whatnotand, its shape made it easier to enter the female's cha-cha (thank you calvin for the expression, i couldn't write anything dirty)

your "teacher" needs to loose his/her job if this is what they're teaching you.

DevilDinah · #26and, its shape made it easier to enter the female's cha-cha (thank you calvin for the expression, i couldn't write anything dirty)

this is also bullshit its designed to ease sex and keeps the natural lube that a lady makes in side making sex easier and less painfull.

I'm not circumcised , and I'm quite glad I'm not.
Let me clear up a few things:1) Cleanliness is not an issue. I wash myself just as everyone else. Men who are circumcised need to clean the area just as much as I do.
The only real issue is in small children who aren't properly taught to clean themselves, but it's arguably a problem for all children including girls and circumcised boys.2) Studies have shown conflicting data in terms of STD risk. The foreskin helps protect from any blood or disease actually entering the body, but if the foreskin is damaged (which can happen if you're too 'active') it increases one's risk.3) Sex is very enjoyable. The head stays more efficiently lubricated, and because there is foreskin, the males natural lubrication is utilized. Additionally, masturbation is easier for me than for circumcised men (for the above reason). No after market lube needed! :D4) @DevilDinah: Your teacher is an idiot. It's only foreskin. It moves back very easily (unless you don't wash it in the shower for a year @_@) and is very easy to clean. Kindly tell your teacher they're an idiot for teaching you incorrect things.Many people see circumcision as the 'normal' way for a man to be. It's actually the opposite. Circumcised men are unnatural. Keep in mind that common is not the same as natural. I'm entirely proud that I wasn't mutilated as a child.I believe it's tragic that babies are mutilated regularly. I also find it tragic that children are indoctrinated into their parent's religions and taught not to question others or honor knowledge when they are so impressionable.
If our civilization is ever to reach a state of clear thinking, we must stop the dogmatic oppression and destruction of our children's minds and bodies.PS: Female circumcision is often practiced in order to inhibit the females sex drive or to limit their level of sexual stimulation. This is usually done to keep them 'good' in the religious sense. Disgusting.

I would've wanted RIC instead of circumcision at 12... man the process itself was painless but the healing process was a pain...only reason you people are hating cuz you use the word mutilation... such a harsh word :p please unnatural cuz we lack a piece of skin that's almost practically useless, I guess people who get their tonsils or appendix removed aren't as natural as you either eh.personally for me I find circumcision fine for both sexes, do it if your culture calls for it or if its your personal choice... mutilation psh... lets just go back to some aztec culture to find some real mutilationwhat advantages do you get if you're circumcised?
Well it'll make it easier to get laid (in the Philippines) :D

In other cultures (mostly Western) it seems you get laughed at, or at least criticized when you're circumcised, but here in the Philippines no Filipina will EVER get laid with you or even dare go near you unless you're circumcised.

Replying to #32

That isn't really a valid argument.
You won't get laid because people are taught that not being circumcised is 'bad'.
People could be taught that there are marshmallows on the moon; it doesn't make it necessarily true (or false nomnomnom).

sla03rs · #31only reason you people are hating cuz you use the word mutilation... such a harsh word :p please unnatural cuz we lack a piece of skin that's almost practically useless, I guess people who get their tonsils or appendix removed aren't as natural as you either eh.

The reason I use the word mutilation is because it happens before the child is old enough to decide. It's an unessential procedure and is more or less permanent. Comparing that to getting something removed for valid health reasons (your tonsils and appendix are potentially life threatening if not removed when necessary).And yes, it's still more natural to have your appendix or tonsils then to have them surgically removed. Again, my point was that circumcision may be common but not natural.

elk1007 · #30I'm not circumcised , and I'm quite glad I'm not.
Let me clear up a few things:1) Cleanliness is not an issue. I wash myself just as everyone else. Men who are circumcised need to clean the area just as much as I do.
The only real issue is in small children who aren't properly taught to clean themselves, but it's arguably a problem for all children including girls and circumcised boys.2) Studies have shown conflicting data in terms of STD risk. The foreskin helps protect from any blood or disease actually entering the body, but if the foreskin is damaged (which can happen if you're too 'active') it increases one's risk.3) Sex is very enjoyable. The head stays more efficiently lubricated, and because there is foreskin, the males natural lubrication is utilized. Additionally, masturbation is easier for me than for circumcised men (for the above reason). No after market lube needed! :D4) @DevilDinah: Your teacher is an idiot. It's only foreskin. It moves back very easily (unless you don't wash it in the shower for a year @_@) and is very easy to clean. Kindly tell your teacher they're an idiot for teaching you incorrect things.Many people see circumcision as the 'normal' way for a man to be. It's actually the opposite. Circumcised men are unnatural. Keep in mind that common is not the same as natural. I'm entirely proud that I wasn't mutilated as a child.I believe it's tragic that babies are mutilated regularly. I also find it tragic that children are indoctrinated into their parent's religions and taught not to question others or honor knowledge when they are so impressionable.
If our civilization is ever to reach a state of clear thinking, we must stop the dogmatic oppression and destruction of our children's minds and bodies.PS: Female circumcision is often practiced in order to inhibit the females sex drive or to limit their level of sexual stimulation. This is usually done to keep them 'good' in the religious sense. Disgusting.

i've always wondered how circumsized men jerk off. there's like no skin, so what exactly are you pulling here??the teacher looks like they're preaching, which i believe you aren't suppose to do because it's not your job, that's you parents job and who ever else is responsible for that.when you think about a womans sex drive, it isn't always on or easily switched on like a man. so it becomes irrational to do this. of course women are curious about things [especially sex], but you could also say the same thing about men.also being uncircumsized you also get to do some amazing pee tricks, like how far you can walk away from the toilet while peeing. i don't know if this is possible for circumsized people though.

@elk1007: Then come here & try it for yourself. Go on a date with a "native" Filipina & show her your uncut shlong & see if she'll make out with you or not.It's not just indoctrination, it's our way of life. Every Filipina will turn down & get disgusted with an uncut penis. Even the local "sex entertainers" would admit they feel sick when they get paid to "entertain" foreigners with uncut shlongs.And to add insult to injury, strange as it may seem, men who aren't circumcised aren't just thought off as unclean or "incomplete", they are at times even labeled as fags, just because they don't want to undergo the rite. But in fact, most gay men do have a circumcision at the ages of 10-12, so this is more of an insult, but it's part of our culture.As for "spanking Monkeys", ugh I really don't want to talk about such things here, why don't you just go to n0rp sites & do a search on "asian jerk off", or to be more specific, if you want, try "Filipino, jerk off, jakol" :P

woot! this thread reminded me of my circumcision. After the procedure in the morning, I went back to the hospital in the evening because the "stitching" wasn't done properly. In other words, my pipi got sewed twice in one day. It was a painful experience.. :-X

Cahos Rahne Veloza · #35It's not just indoctrination, it's our way of life.

When you can tell me what the difference is, maybe I'll try to envision a world where girls have an innate preference toward male genitalia.>_>

Indoctrination is when you are taught certain things, usually related to a religion or social group like a fraternity/sorority or as in a Professional field as Medicine or Engineering. You are in a sense are taught ideas that relate to that social structure like the idea of Heaven & life ever lasting for Christianity & reincarnation in Hinduism & Buddhism. Or, how the human body works & how to apply the correct procedure to save lives. That is indoctrination, something you can go against if you see it not to your liking.My term "a way of life", isn't something taught by force or compulsory, they're ideas & traditions that are passed down, not by words or instruction, but by generation transfer, they're things that are passed down unknowingly from parent to offspring by example. For example, you westerners are "handed" the tradition of eating cereals for breakfast, whereas we Asians are "handed down" the tradition of eating a heavy breakfast of rice & some form of viand.Of course you guys are so defensive when we say "here, un-circumcised men are considered dirty or incomplete" or that women here are disgusted with un circumcised men, because that's what your culture dictates. But to us, you are the absurd one, because we see things via our own ideals & tradition.As they say, "truth is never absolute, what may be true for us may not be true for you." What matters is we each believe in what we believe in & we should respect others for what they believe in.

Replying to #38

Which means they probably wouldn't feel that way if the idea wasn't 'passed down'. It's basically the same as indoctrination.
It's simply taught through practice rather than preached. Woman are equally capable of 'going against' the feeling that foreskin is bad.I'm not offended that a culture of woman are taught (whether official or by practice) that circumcision is positive, at least not because I personally am not circumcised.
I do 'take offense' when people act irrationally due to some dogmatic practice.
I just happen to be uncircumcised and the irrationality just happens to be about circumcision.
Coincidental.

Well same here, I don't take it lightly when outlanders belittle my country & culture.If you find our culture to be barbaric & such keep them to yourselves. Besides, this thread is about one's opinion about circumcision, not bash talking others' beliefs towards the matter. If someone believes it's good to be circumcised then fine, let them have their say, if you aren't for it fine as well, just don't start questioning us of rationality & irrationality, is it irrational that we value tradition over some new way of thinking?Oh and to settle the issue of if our culture dictated us to jump off a cliff & kill ourselves as part of our culture will we do it? The answer is yes, that's how much we value tradition. 8)We don't mourn like you do when someone dies, instead we hold a sort of party to honor the dead.We eat dog meat.We have our men circumcised at a certain ageWe celebrate Christmas 4 months in advance up til January.We torture ourselves as penance on Holy Week.We eat Balut, which you westerners refer as "aborted duck embryo".And we are proud!If you can't live with it, then I pity you....