routine infant circumcision

There seems to be a wide variety of people here from all over the world, so I was hoping to get all the different views on this topic I consider to be a serious one with regards to human rights. This thread is not about circumcision in general (ie. what "looks" better on an adult, etc.) it is a question of whether or not it is ethical to perform what is essentially a cosmetic surgery on an infant, whether or not the reasons being given for it (everything from slightly reducing AIDS or UTIs, "looking like daddy," cleanliness, etc) or if it is a violation of that child's rights to alter them permanently by removing a part of their genitals and thus their option to choose.I have a feeling I'm one of few females on the board and understand that the topic can sometimes make men uncomfortable. It can also cause a defensive reaction to those males on the board who happen to be circumcised (and usually a very violent response from parents who have circumcised a child in my experience) but it's an issue that is becoming more and more prominent in places like the United States, with one of the highest circ rates.Thanks! ;)

the main reason for it is usually culture or religion, and that is when the topic gets difficult.

Just for the record, Circumcision has nothing to do with cleanliness, it's a common misconception that it has but it's bullocks really.As for whether it's ethical or not, I dunno, the person will never know differently so either way I don't think it matters much, it's a bit like being baptised, except you can't decide not to confirm it. (Or can you actually undo the process now-a-days?)

I don't care enough to make a big deal about being circumsized since I don't remember it anyways. :PI can't imagine I would've been too happy about it if I was at the age where I remembered things though, since I'm willing to bet that would hurt a bit...

Loonylion · #2the main reason for it is usually culture or religion, and that is when the topic gets difficult.

this is true, however the same excuse is used on many rituals deemed torture and banned here, such as female circumcision. So then the question becomes, why are girls' genitals protected and not boys?

Seph · #3Just for the record, Circumcision has nothing to do with cleanliness, it's a common misconception that it has but it's bullocks really.As for whether it's ethical or not, I dunno, the person will never know differently so either way I don't think it matters much, it's a bit like being baptised, except you can't decide not to confirm it. (Or can you actually undo the process now-a-days?)

except for the fact that a baptism does not cause any permanent damage or lifelong consequences, nor are the risks as great. Circumcision is also much more painful and frightening to a newborn than a baptism. Whether or not the adult remembers the pain or emotional trauma is a moot point...it should never be an excuse to cause an infant such distress.I really appreciate all the input, btw :)

All I know is that Jewish do it to newborns. Although you can just always just clean under there. But you can't feel the pleasure if you get circumsized :(

I was circumsized as a baby....but I'm not Jewish >.>but to me:The earlier, the better >.>

It's not just a Jewish custom. It became strangely popular in the United States after some so-called doctors decided circumcision was an effective "cure" to masturbation, which they deemed not only immoral, but hazardous to the health of young boys. As Kellogg put it:

"A remedy [for masturbation] which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision...The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind...In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement. " -- Dr. John Harvey Kellogg

(yes, this is who Kellogg's cereal is named after, btw)This is how circ started in mainstream, non-Jewish America and it has somehow persisted to this day, even though most people would find this excuse absurd and most parents have no idea this is the REAL basis for RIC. Now circumcision is a multi-million dollar industry and the medical community is working hard to try and keep it that way by releasing extremely dodgy "studies" in an attempt to prove there are medical reasons to circumcise your son.The truth remains, however, that circumcision is a solution desperately looking for a problem.Kamage: you may think having it done as an infant was the best thing, however had you remained infact, it is highly unlikely you would ever need (or want) to be circumcised as an adult. Circumcised adults don't feel they are missing anything because they have never had the opportunity to experience a foreskin in the first place.

Here's what I have to say about circumcisions:Scariest Moment of your LifeRe: This, or that?Read my posts on those threads. My posts are easy to spot as I used green fonts.And as for my opinion, I'm for circumcisions, because its part of our culture & tradition. What I don't like are all the "scare tactics" involved in the rite.

Replying to #10

so, I assume you're also okay with female circumcision in places like Africa, Egypt and Ethiopia...because it's part of their culture and tradition and has been for many, many years? Using very similar justifications for the practice as those folks who agree with male circumcision?

Also, just out of curiosity, why were you circumcised at 11?I'd like to make clear that I'm not anti-circumcision. I'm anti-RIC - the "routine" circumcision of infants. I feel that if a male decides at a later time he would prefer to have a circumcised penis, that is 100% his purgative and I respect that. I do not agree that ANYONE has the right to make such a life-altering choice for another person when they are too young to speak for themselves or defend themselves. It is a violation of an infant's basic human rights to choose what happens to their own genitals.

Circumcisions can also be used to cure people, some people can carry a gene that if passed on can cause a problem (boys only) that requires circumcision but laser surgery is an option now, my friend told me when I was ranting about muslims and their traditions they do that they should'nt in Britain....

As I said, here in the Philippines & I guess in other Asian countries as well. Circumcision is considered a rite of passage into manhood. And as such, Filipino boys are often circumcised at around the ages of 10 to 12, as those years are considered the ages by which boys turn into men, with all that puberty thing & all. And quite frankly, most boys here rather undergo the traditional method of circumcision, performed by the village healer (not a professional doctor), using a sharp blade that the guy uses to cut foreskin off. Yeah going onto a hospital operation table maybe "safer" or more "ethical", but tradition is more important than all that "neatness".Oh I forgot to mention, I hated the "style" of my circumcision, because it was my bastard father's choice, not mine. Frankly I wanted the "Filipino Cut", but that asshole instructed the doctor to give me the "German V cut". :PP.S.What's female Circumcision anyway?

Puberty usually starts a bit later, at around 13, but I started when I was 2 :) I think the doctors probably use sharp scalpels. I probably will never get circumsized, for obvious reasons :P Female Circumcision is when they cut out some of the parts of the external or not needed of the genitals. Don't ask me how I know this :P

Don't ban me for using technical not so PG-13-ish terms here okay,So are you saying female circumcision is when they force break a woman's hymen? If so, I think that's not circumcision, that's forced de-virginization.EDIT:Okay I read up on Female circumcision or more commonly referred to as "cutting" or mutulation.Quite frankly I'd say female mutulation is different from male circumcision. Come on, removing a woman's clitoris, what the hell!?That would be equivalent to cutting of the head of a man's penis, Yeouch!

Circumcision is discusting, beliefs or no, this should only be used for medical cures, it is quite dangerous and an infection chance doubles the reason it shouldn't be done.

Off topic rebuttal:So should we also stop body piercings, tattooing & other body mutilation rites as well?You maybe disgusted with such acts as a "personal belief", but just because you don't like it, you shouldn't impose on others' beliefs as well. I'm not angry or anything aggro, just my opinion.

Mutilation is sick, and for a child it is injustice to do this if it has no real benefit, not just cultural, these should start when they are full adults so they can choose what they want...

But what if a child does want it? Like a seven year old girl wanting her ears pierced so she could wear earrings like mum or Auntie or big sis? And in my country's example, droves of 10 to 12 year old boys falling in line waiting eagerly to get their circumcision just after summer vacation starts?