Wikileaks releases video of US troops gunning down civilians and reporters

Active duty military servicemember here, I have been to Iraq for a 6-month tour just last year.Though I have not been engaged in combat during my time there, I can tell you that it is not easy over there especially if you wear military uniform. I'm not gonna go over on why we're there on the first place, but as soldiers we take orders, it is why we had to sworn an oath. I know people that have been in combat before, shot/killed others or been shot/killed by others, and the fact is, everyone copes with it their own way. Some never talks about it, some are stressed about it, some laughs it off to cope with it. I've seen the video and even though I have never been in an apache crew, I would probably have done the same thing. You guys can criticize all you want, but at the end of the day, you guys are sitting comfortably in front of your computers while they are risking their lives, if it was you in the video, you would probably do something different than what you say you would do now.That is all.

Replying to #61

yep

Petey · #61You guys can criticize all you want, but at the end of the day, you guys are sitting comfortably in front of your computers while they are risking their lives, if it was you in the video, you would probably do something different than what you say you would do now.

I've taken part in a lot of debates about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan on various issues as well as viewed many debates by others, and it's only a matter of time before somebody plays the "you aren't a Soldier and You weren't there and so have no right to judge" card. If not being present in a particular situation or not having the same role or experiences of somebody who was present mean that it isn't possible to fairly decide the moral standing of the situation or accurately judge the characters of other people, regardless of clear-cut evidence; then anyone could justify doing absolutely anything to anyone else and be completely untouchable.
The effects of war and mental conditioning by the army may be the reason that they that they slaughtered those innocent people and laughed about it; but reason and justification aren't interchangeable words.
The stories that i linked to in my earlier posts about American aircraft killing and wounding British soldiers in friendly fire; would it be right to say that their actions were just in line with what is to be expected from any servicemen at war? I think that the soldiers in the video are a disgrace to the majority who make their countries proud, and defending them them and their actions demeans those that don't leave their morals at home when they go to war.

Replying to #63

he never said anything like that, just that you would react differently to what you are saying now because your safe at home and not there

Replying to #64

I think that he's implying it through his post. And i'd like to think that i'd conduct myself in such a situation in the same way that i conduct myself in everyday life; however, i except that i can't be certain. If i don't know for sure how i'd act, i doubt anyone else is able to accurately predict what i (or anybody else) would do in such a situation.

i know one thing for certain, your moral high ground goes out the window when your scared and fear for your life.
its not like a debate, or a computer game where you can get a medikit, you make the wrong call and thats it.
you see that guy on bbc news a few weeks back? the one with no legs and one arm? thats my mate ramrod, thats what happens and once you see that you dont want it happening to you.
Im sure everyone does agree with you in principal but been there under pressure and scared is different
im backing up the soldiers, they dont need to come home and hear that shit from people who dont understand

Replying to #66

Those soldiers weren't fearing for their lives, they were in no danger whatsoever. If there were people on the ground firing at them, and in returning fire they accidentally killed and/or wounded civilians it would still be a terrible event; but i wouldn't be condemning them and a doubt many other people would be either.

Replying to #66

Are you talking about the soldiers in the video, or soldiers generally?
Condemning the actions of a few doesn't mean withdrawing support from every soldier in Afghanistan; i fully support the soldiers whom make their respective nations proud.

Don't get me wrong, there are bad soldiers in the military, nothing is perfect, ever. There are always flaws.That being said, I don't agree with everything that happened on the video, but it did not surprised me that something like this happened, it is bound to happen sooner or later. If incidents like this happens every single day then we would have a problem, but as an isolated incident, the media as always blows everything out of proportion and condemns the military, even if Wikileaks denies that and says it's for people to know the 'truth'. I agree that the people that died should deserve the truth at the very least but media outlets uses this or any other military related incident to criticize them, and I do not appreciate that.We are under enough pressure as it is, if the soldiers hear the news about how shitty they are and how much scrutiny they are under, then they are unable to perform their duties, which could result in themselves and others killed. For example, what if a gate guard sees an unidentified car driving up to the gate and thinks for a second, "hmm should I shoot the driver? My military instincts says yes because of safety concerns but my moral values says no because what if someone innocent was there and if I shoot/kill the driver I might be dissected under the microscope?" That split second from thinking could endanger everyone inside that base, and that is simply not tolerated.It sucks, but it has to be done. If you take any chances/hesitations, you may not be alive. That is all I'm trying to get across.

Replying to #68

It may be different where you are, but i barely ever here the various armies involved in the Iraq and Afghanistan being criticized by the media; governments for starting wars and not equipping/training/caring for soldiers properly yes, but rarely the military. As for this being an isolated incident, we would have no idea if this sort of thing were happening every day due to occurrences such as this being covered up and lied about. Speaking of which: http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0412/wikileaks-plans-post-video-showing-massacre-afghani-civilians/
Also, this hasn't been blown out of proportion by the media at all, most media outlets ignored it until they had no choice but to recognise it; they are afraid of criticizing the military for fear that doing so will turn the public against them. At the end of the day, the press only reports events; individuals make them happen.

Replying to #68

Only ignorant people would cast blame upon an entire army of soldiers because of the actions of a few; however, there is a risk of people doing this if the heads of the military continue to cover things like this up; in my opinion this makes the military chiefs more a danger to the public opinion of soldiers than the press who merely report their actions.
In the example situation you just made up it would have perhaps been justified to open fire, in the actual situation that the soldiers in the video were in it wasn't; context matters, you can't use a completely different chain of events that bare no similarity whatsoever to justify a another. I could just as easily (and just as wrongly) say "Well what if those soldiers just walked into a school in Boston and shot the crap out of all the brown kids because they thought one could grow up to be a suicide bomber; would that be OK?".

markswanIt may be different where you are, but i barely ever here the various armies involved in the Iraq and Afghanistan being criticized by the media; governments for starting wars and not equipping/training/caring for soldiers properly yes, but rarely the military. As for this being an isolated incident, we would have no idea if this sort of thing were happening every day due to occurrences such as this being covered up and lied about. Speaking of which: http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0412/wikileaks-plans-post-video-showing-massacre-afghani-civilians/
Also, this hasn't been blown out of proportion by the media at all, most media outlets ignored it until they had no choice but to recognise it; they are afraid of criticizing the military for fear that doing so will turn the public against them. At the end of the day, the press only reports events; individuals make them happen.Only ignorant people would cast blame upon an entire army of soldiers because of the actions of a few; however, there is a risk of people doing this if the heads of the military continue to cover things like this up; in my opinion this makes the military chiefs more a danger to the public opinion of soldiers than the press who merely report their actions.
In the example situation you just made up it would have perhaps been justified to open fire, in the actual situation that the soldiers in the video were in it wasn't; context matters, you can't use a completely different chain of events that bare no similarity whatsoever to justify a another. I could just as easily (and just as wrongly) say "Well what if those soldiers just walked into a school in Boston and shot the crap out of all the brown kids because they thought one could grow up to be a suicide bomber; would that be OK?".

your just arguing your point with no real reason now just for the sake of it.
the 2 people who have been there have both agreed what happened in this video is wrong.
we have also tried to point out to you that actually been there you cannot make the right moral decision everytime in a split second under pressure and scared.for your next debate i suggest you do it with some soldiers past and present with some actual experience of what their talking about and not in a college classroom with nothing but morals to judge by

Replying to #70

I am not just arguing my point for “no real reason”, the reason that I’m arguing my point is because I believe it is a valid one. If you feel this debate has gone on too long and no longer wish to partake in it then don’t do so. If people keep bringing their arguments to this thread then I will continue to respond to them, I will try to respond as coherently and as logically as I can and clearly state the reasoning behind my response; I started this thread and fully intend to maintain it until people lose interest, it becomes irrelevant or it is locked.

Replying to #70

Having been a soldier serving in wars abroad doesn’t give you any more right to comment on this subject (or any less) than me or anyone else. Those soldiers weren’t under pressure, we keep returning to this point, as I said before; if they were in any danger or had good reason to believe so then this video would be fairly inconsequential as a moral reflection of the actions o those soldiers.
The fact that they were in no danger, were not ordered to fire but rather asked for permission and didn’t make the proper checks to verify that the people on the ground were a threat.
They then preceded to fire upon a civilian vehicle trying to help the wounded, again without carrying out the proper checks.
Upon finding out that they had wounded children they preceded to laugh and brush it off as if it were nothing.
After all this happened and the video was reviewed by the American military, they clearly saw how wrong this all was and decided to hide it and lie about it when questioned.
This sort of thing has happened before quite a few times (that we know about) and will continue to happen if people refuse to acknowledge it a repeatedly forgive the military for murdering other human beings without so much as a slap on the wrist.

Replying to #70

Nothing but morals to judge by?, what is that video, scotch mist?
I am judging on the events clearly evidenced in the video, past events of things very similar to this happening (news stories of which I linked to in previous posts), the reaction of the American military after learning of this (trying to cover this up) and the American government trying to silence Wikileaks for reporting it.
I may just be being a cynic in saying this; but I can’t help but feel that if the story that I centered this thread around were one of the numerous stories of American troops firing upon British vehicles in Iraq or Afghanistan, the amount of sympathy for the Americans; who apparently become “under pressure and scared” by absolutely nothing and see that as reason enough to indiscriminately wipe human life from the earth as if it were nothing, would be dramatically less.

That Was Horrible...They Didnt Even Have Weapons On Them..They Are Innocent!!!I Feel Hatred In The U.S Military :(

This reminds me of "No Russian". (COD 6 Airport Massacre Level)
who here agrees??