Religion...

damanaliWhat i hate about religion is not the religion, but the people using religion as an excuse.

i have to agree with this.

LookintheMirrorI was baptised a Catholic at 1 year old.My mother chose to do this-so how could I choose a religion at that age.

Same thing here but I took a different path. I changed my religion at the age of 12, my parents had different religions too. at that young age I had too much thinking cause everything bothers me until I came up with that decision, and i'm happy & content with it even upto now, but a lot of people opposed me, even my own relatives.

teserutI have my reasons for being an atheist. I have my reasons for hating religion. This wouldn't really be a rant if I didn't explain would it?When I was around 7 I specifically remember me constantly asking my mum if god was real. She always answered me the same way: I don't know. Is it really wise to submit your life to a religion based on ambiguity? My Dad raised me and my 2 siblings to be Christians, now we're all atheists. When I was 5 my papou (Greek for grandfather) got smashed into by a car as he walked down the street, I don't exactly know the details, but he was on his way to give me and my siblings presents... That's right, my Grandfather died on Christmas day. And the driver of that car survived the crash and was never seen or heard from again. Barely a year later my Uncle Steven (who I loved very much) left Sydney to lose thousands of dollars gambling, become a pot head, and not contact our family until he needed money. I'm not blaming religion for him getting addicted to gambling and drugs, I'm not blaming a random crackhead for smashing into a helpless old man and then disappearing, but when you pull everything together it looks a little like thisGod + bright idea = Earth and people
non religious people + God = Pain
religious people = God = PainThat sounded emo I know. I don't want to bring up the same old world war 2 excuse again so I'm not going to. But if God is real, would he let people suffer? Would he create a world with murder and torture? When you look at the 10 commandments they look like God needed a few for himself, then got lazy with the other 6 and made up a bunch of crap. If God was real (which we are assuming he is) then shouldn't his intent have been to make a perfect world? Kind of like Heaven? What kind of sick experiment is he running? Creating people just so they can be tortured and murdered and raped.I have a few more reasons for hating religion and being an atheist but I'm tired, its late, and I feel I've contradicted myself at least once throughout this rant. Post if you must, I expect people to flame me for whatever reasons they may have.

a typical atheist. and right, all are on the atheists' side.
i'm not a catholic, atheist, islam, buddhist or whatsoever, but I'm a Christian and I believe in God. I'm actually part of the largest independent church in Asia, but I won't preach in here. i'm tired of these, it's like endless, or maybe i'm just too lazy for debates and rants. i just want to say that there's even more to this. sorry for even bothering to post in this thread.

Replying to #21

we know when religious a people is trying to preach,he or she will try to use science to prove whatever their belief is.(my uncle is an example)

As an Anti-Theist, I believe that Structured belief systems are wrong, and are used to abuse power and brainwash people who are in need or are weak willed. I believe everyone should have a choice in what they think is there, or not there. If they want to think God is real, then I am happy that they find something fitting to allow their existence to be better, for them. I detest people who believe there religion is correct and shun the opinions of everything else, without fail. I also detest people who preach the same, and try to force you to believe in something that you have no want in believing.I have Jewish pals, a few Christian friends and one Muslim friend. We discuss religion like no other, but at the end of the day, we all agree that what we believe, works for us, and that we shouldn't let a simple difference of opinion matter over a friendship. Fear is a tool used to make a people cower and become puppets, and sadly, religion is used just that way, and that is why I am firmly against it but not the people that want to believe.But my express opinion? I feel God, or the ideal of God, was just a self representation of ourselves, originally to question where we came from or what we are doing here, now that our minds have become more complex, we can self-explain our own reasons for existence, some feel it procreation, others to enjoy life as we see it.I feel the meaning of life is different, for each person. One persons' meaning may be getting rich and becoming a star, he has purpose and meaning within his life, he has answered the age old question. Another person (my own), is to just live happily, and maybe one day have a family. Life is fragile and death is a certainty, being sad is normal but fearing the inevitable is foolish and will cause you to fear life itself.Live as you mean to die, then die without fear from what is to come. : )

Replying to #23

I respect you!

why he's saying the same as everyone else just with the tag "you can believe what you want as long as your not preaching it to me"

Replying to #25

I don't mind preachy people, as long as they're not preaching in a way that makes them seem correct; After all. No one knows. For all that anything is worth, we could all be an imagination of ourselves through a dream sharing one subconscious and none of us are real.But yeah -- I have debated with friends about religion a lot of the time. I suppose it all comes down to how the person comes across, or how much they know about their own religion.
But I can see you're starting not to like me for my.... Rather frank views on the matter, so I will stop.

Replying to #26

????? don't know where you get that idea from why would i not like you, you say basically the same as i say all the time, i was asking why he respects you when you are saying the same things but just with a tag line. i just wanted to know if saying people can believe what they want to believe deserves respect even though you still called religious people weak willed. i wanted his understanding of what your sayingi love a debate on religion, me and my boss debate it all the time, he is the only person i have every heard that can argue for religion in anyway that doesn't sound ridiculous and he can back up what he is saying with scripture (+without greatly misinterpreting it) and although i know they are bull crap it's nice to see someone is actually able to defend them selves.

Ahhhh. I think I typed what I meant wrong. A lot of people who are weak willed or who have had a certain experience, turn to religion as a scape, and thus religion can re-invent the person, a lot of times for evil (as is happening for fanatics within Islam now). I'm not saying all religious people are weak willed or pathetic, but that a lot of people turn to religion because of that.Sorry about the misunderstanding, and I guess I got the wrong end of the stick, too. Heh. n.n

teserutThat sounded emo I know. I don't want to bring up the same old world war 2 excuse again so I'm not going to. But if God is real, would he let people suffer? Would he create a world with murder and torture? When you look at the 10 commandments they look like God needed a few for himself, then got lazy with the other 6 and made up a bunch of crap. If God was real (which we are assuming he is) then shouldn't his intent have been to make a perfect world? Kind of like Heaven? What kind of sick experiment is he running? Creating people just so they can be tortured and murdered and raped.

Could God prevent this? Maybe. Is this the AntiChrist's fault? Maybe. Furthermore, it has not yet been scientifically proven about ANY religion. Most scientists are doubtful of any religion (as I am). In the old days, religion brought empires together, whether they were fake or not. Some religions were maybe created to cause fear. Some religions were created to lead a country. Some religions were created to bring people together. And many people still believed in their religion, for those reasons. Even in war or in times of distress, people went to their gods for help. Sometimes things got better. Sometimes praying won't do anything, or even make it worse. This goes to today. Many people believe religion is to keep people in check, as my mother believes. She is very spiritual, and I think it is weird. She is (almost) always positive, which is a good thing, and she says keeping it positive gets you places. That may not be true for some people, including her.I have no grandparents. I actually have one, but lets avoid that minefield. One reason I don't have grandparents is that people mistreated them. Both my mom's parents died because of people. For example, Kaiser Permanente kicked them out of their homes and cut treatment because they could not afford it. My dad's dad died because he smoked and drank himself to his last breath. That goes back to your story. Both your uncle's and grandfather's was a persons fault. Your grandfather died at the hands of a reckless driver, not God. Your uncle made himself like who he is now, not God.This goes back to the meaning of life. If it is true that we chose what kind of life you wanted before we came to earth, and if everyone had only a feeling of happiness in Heaven, why would we chose to be raped, murdered, and tortured? Maybe we wanted to experience new things. Maybe the purpose of life is to learn, and maybe God may be getting a sense of what's happening here, if he is always watching us. Maybe he wants to see how his "experiment" can cause people to do in dire situations, and learn for us. Since people may only feel happiness in heaven, we may forget how earth is an explosion of evil emotions.Since we were all supposedly created by God, and if scientific facts may say we are related to God in a way, since he is our creator, then wouldn't we all have a little bit of God in us? How do things like miracles happen? Maybe it's because we all have a bit of God in us. Some people don't believe in miracles, but then how do they exist? For example, when a doctor thinks a child with brain damage straight out of the womb may die soon, but they live for years? Maybe even decades? How do people suddenly come alive out of a coma? How do some people in life survive the most extreme disasters? Maybe we all have a purpose in life. Maybe when we meet that purpose, we die. When people are in near death situations, and they make it through it, maybe they haven't fulfilled their purpose. When people die in the womb, maybe their purpose is to experience early death? Maybe, for some people, their purpose is to be rich and greedy. And relating to what I have said before, maybe their purpose is to experience what it is like to feel bad emotions. Maybe we die before we meet our purpose (suicide or being killed by a dark person) and we need to jump right back into this hellhole to try to go for our purpose again. And if all you experience is being sent to God, I respect him for going through this hunk of shit of a place.And if there is no God, then who set off that single atom in the Big Bang theory? And it has been proven that god did not create earth. He may have created the first being, the stem cell of life, but not all of the universe.Note all this is coming from a 13 year old teen.
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BTW, he did not create people. It's a scientific fact. Also, who says their is no other life on earth? (I may just rant about ALIENS in a new topic)

Replying to #29

random acts of chance. and can always be explained by science and/or math. just because that is one in millionth of a chance does not mean it has anything to do with god.i've seen some crazy shit before and unbelievable medical feats and although unbelievable at the time have all been explainable when scrutinized. i really don't understand how people can attribute these things to a god just having a play around with our lives.and ok you said about people in a disaster surviving. so answer me this, why does a being with limitless power just save a handful of people and let the other people die?if there was an unsurvivable disaster and not one person was hurt i'll believe in miracles then.my second question if you wish to answer. if you have one idea on this all being god's experiment why do you worship something using you as a guinea pig?

I believe in doing what's good and that's that, believing in what you will. Anything beyond that may lead to an unnecessary segregation, and segregation may eventually lead to conflict.

equitypetey · #30my second question if you wish to answer. if you have one idea on this all being god's experiment why do you worship something using you as a guinea pig?

Okay, that is a reasonable rebuttal. We are not his "guinea pig". Well, not exactly. We learn new things and grow more insightful because we live in this hellhole. And he does not exactly use us as an experiment, because as he is learnung stuff, we are too.

equitypetey · #30Can always be explained by science and/or math. Just because that is one in millionth of a chance does not mean it has anything to do with god.

That is mostly true. I am not exactly a devout religious person. My mom is almost a devout spiritual person, and if I argue about miracles and such, she finds a way to prove me wrong (eventually). Miracles have (sort of) happened before. A plane crashed in the ocean and there was only minor injuries, and a a small amount of casualties. I think miracles may or may not exist. This goes back to your purpose in life.

equitypetey · #30if there was an unsurvivable disaster and not one person was hurt i'll believe in miracles then.

Has there EVER been an unsurvivable disaster before? Not exactly. When the first Ice Age occurred, did everyone die? No. Species survived. More than 90% of the species that existed on earth are extinct. The remaining survived. If there was an unsurvivable disaster, there would be no more things in existence. There is no chance that survival would happen. Have you ever seen an unsurvivable disaster? I did not think so. There is always something that survives.Again, the purpose of life. If you chose to die by a disaster, then is it God's fault? If you chose to live suffering, is that God's fault? If we chose to be a killer, is that God's fault? We all eventually die, we either go to Heaven, get judged, or stay on Earth. The reason that I said "stay on Earth" is that (apparently) some people are to evil stay in a recurring cycle or rebirths, because they chose to be independent, hateful against anything good, evil, vengeful, and/or wanted to have absolute power without being under God. The people that need to be "judged" (also apparently) are people that are doubtful that being under God is good, so they choose freely to be good and bad. (The apparently crap is cause I'm not sure if that statement is true or not)

equitypetey · #30and ok you said about people in a disaster surviving. so answer me this, why does a being with limitless power just save a handful of people and let the other people die?

Again he does not let them die, they chose whether they wanted to die or not.[The things I doubt in most religions]
-miracles (which may or may not happen)
-the people that are evil or need to be judged
-hell (cause there is enough shit going on here)
-some of Sylvia Brown's ideas (mom's spiritual inspiration, #1 New York Times writer and World famous psychic)
-Satan (don't get me started with that guy)

Religion is rubbish...
People only follow religion cause they have nothing to believe in, therefore, uses religion as a medium to believe in themselves...
I saw through this and became an atheist...I BELIEVE IN MYSELF AND NOT IN FALSE IMAGES!!!

mikeac · #32Again he does not let them die, they chose whether they wanted to die or not.

so say a brick falls from a building being built and hits you head killing you that's you choosing to die?

mikeacOkay, that is a reasonable rebuttal. We are not his "guinea pig". Well, not exactly. We learn new things and grow more insightful because we live in this hellhole. And he does not exactly use us as an experiment, because as he is learnung stuff, we are too.

Time out for a minute!Isn't 'God' supposed to be 'all knowing'? How can an 'all knowing' being still be learning?An 'all knowing' being, by definition, possesses infinite knowledge, which makes it practically impossible for that being to gain new knowledge by learning.I think you owe us an explanation here.

Dammit Hypr, that's the first thing that appeared to me as well.But further to that, why then did God create us? "Because He was lonely," doesn't cut it - if one is omnipotent and omnipresent, then he'd already know all the minutiae of our lives (and indeed, the universe) from beginning to end. It's like watching a movie. Why would you go see a movie if you can already recall every detail of it before you've seen it? That also goes for the whole "giving us free will so He can see what we choose (good or evil)"; he'd know.

mikeac · #32-Satan (don't get me started with that guy)

C'mon, don't rule out Satan!
The guy is my hero!
According to Christian legend, he was the only guy who had the guts to stand up to god and say:
"You want everyone to serve you and obey you.
And you want to rule over everything, punishing whoever breaks your rules, while you are free to break them yourself.
Well, screw your totalitarian dictatorship, i will not bow to a tyrant!"
Or something along those lines.
The guy's got some balls!

Hypr · #35Time out for a minute!Isn't 'God' supposed to be 'all knowing'? How can an 'all knowing' being still be learning?An 'all knowing' being, by definition, possesses infinite knowledge, which makes it practically impossible for that being to gain new knowledge by learning.I think you owe us an explanation here.

When did I say God is all knowing? Suiseiseki is right. If God was all knowing, then why would he create us? Was he bored? Or did he just completely randomly make us, for no reason? As I am going to say (which is just a theory) is that God is all powerful, yet not all knowing.

Replying to #37

God does not punish. He does not have 'rules'. Unless you are talking about the commandments. Yeah, God will covet his neighbors possesions, murder and steal, uhuh. He is not a tyrant or a dictator, as he did not force people to 'obey' him. And people don't have to 'obey' him, as he cannot force us in what to do.Your hero is the guy that pretty much betrayed God, rules Hell, he is technically a tyrant, as he forces people to be tortured when they don't want to be, and is a dictator in his own special way.Hell is a bunch of shit to me. Why would anyone get even more tortured down in the friggin depths of hell?Also, I don't believe in asking for forgiveness so you don't go to hell. Every time my friend says OMG in a text, he goes to Church to be forgiven every weekend. WTF.Serial Killer: "I killed an old lady and stole her money, her dog, and hergrandson, and her deed to her house, poisoned her dog, and raped and killed her grandson. Will you for give me God?"God: "Sure. Just don't do it again."7 YEARS LATERSerial Killer: "I killed that grandson's son. Will you please please please forgive me God?"God: "Yeah whatever."
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sinharvest24 · #33Religion is rubbish...
People only follow religion cause they have nothing to believe in, therefore, uses religion as a medium to believe in themselves...
I saw through this and became an atheist...I BELIEVE IN MYSELF AND NOT IN FALSE IMAGES!!!

Religion is for people that need assurance that something actually cares and looks over them. They may not be false images.

equitypetey · #34so say a brick falls from a building being built and hits you head killing you that's you choosing to die?

People choose their purpose and details of their life before the come to earth. If life was completely random, unplanned and unsupervised, life in general would be like California's economy.

Replying to #38

ok you do realize your starting to sound crazy.
did you get this idea from anywhere or is it just your own opinion?

Replying to #39

No it makes sense...We as humans have no purpose. We give ourselves purpose, a reason to live, an excuse if you like.