What's Up with people like this?

NatewlieEven though capitalism isn't perfect, it's the only one that works and stays like it in terms of representing a large populace. It complicates life but any other system isn't much better, any other system may seem good on paper (like Marxism or socialism), but they never work in practice, they often turn into communism (marxism) or just turns into totalitarianism.If it worked like it did on paper, I would say that there's better systems, but they usually don't pan out like they're supposed to.etcetcetcetc

All those are Western ideas, apparently (not sure about communism though).

Replying to #61

Give me an example of communism that's actually communism/marxism. A stateless land/system with a proletariat revolution and no leader in the process.

So why should we stick to what we know? theres some clever people in this world that can see what does and doesn't work.

Enlighten us plz, cause I don't know of much else that can work.

Replying to #62

I dont know enough about the different systems to even enlighten myself.
I do know however that its starting to go wrong. people will always vote for what benefits themselves regardless of the big picture, minimum wage in 1997 for example.
I believe that someone/a group of people should have the power to make the decisions that people wont go for.

Replying to #63

Then why do you think that they are better than democracy?

Replying to #63

Go wrong where? If you're talking again about the faults of the British government; most of the wrongful decisions made recently violate the guidelines of democracy (and in the case of things such as the expenses scandal; laws too). Things like the expenses scandal, illegal wars, uncapped immigration aren't caused by democracy; they're caused by politicians whom claim to fly the flag of democracy whilst disregarding the obligations that it hands them and acting within their own interests. Because it's the politicians and the government as a whole that are the problems, giving them the additional power and freedom to do as they please with absolutely no realistic repercussions (as would inevitably become the case with communism) would just make things worse. And I'm aware of the fact that politicians are flaunting laws in Britain; there will be repercussions for things like that from voters if nothing else though.

Replying to #63

You need to expand on that; it looks like your saying that upping the minimum wage is a bad thing for the majority and only benefits few, and that doesn't make any sense.

Replying to #63

I believe that that would lead to a police state where individuals are oppressed and government figures and the enforcers of their decisions have more rights that the average citizen.

Replying to #64

When did i say that? If you read my posts you should see i meant something new, "why should we stick to what we know?" is the biggest giveaway.And yes, i am talking about the faults of the british government and i will try to expand on it best i can, you should know by now im not good at explaining so please ask about things before you go ripping into my posts.The thing wrong with democracy is it gives people what they want, not what they need.
Politicians will make rash promises to get into power because people will always vote for what benefits them the most. Politicians cannot tell it as it is because people dont want to hear it if it isn't as good as the last guy that promised them something.
We have SLIGHTLY too many rights(make a note of that word slightly) things should just be backed down SLIGHTLY. Im not saying take away womens votes or any of that before you start, im talking about things that dont help the country. The media's freedom to report on peoples personal lifes is wrong.
I also mean the rights of paedophiles to get a new identity, house and job so they are safe. The children in that area should have the right to be safe.
The rights criminals have, someone can rape, rob, torture and kill a 90 year old woman and nobody can do anything, If someone breaks into your house and you give them a beating, you could go to jail whilst they could get away free.What we need is something like democracy but where the public have SLIGHTLY less power, the government should be able to make decisions as they see fit.
todays system is almost working, just could be improved.
but of course the people wont vote for it because it doesn't benefit them, and there is the problem.

Replying to #65

I'm not psychic. Something new like what?

Replying to #65

It's not as if the majority of the things that the politicians promise are impossible to achieve. Most people aren't stupid, incredibly unrealistic promises will only fool voters rarely; voters have long memories for being lied to and seeing promises broken.

We have SLIGHTLY too many rights (...) The media's freedom to report on peoples personal lifes is wrong.
I also mean the rights of paedophiles to get a new identity, house and job so they are safe. The children in that area should have the right to be safe.
What we need is something like democracy but where the public have SLIGHTLY less power,

I agree with the way the rights of criminals are often put above those of victims; and this should stop. But this problem could be solved by taking rights away from criminals (and other individuals whose rights to engage in activities that disrupt the lives of other people intentionally and avoidably, without consent, for personal gain) and affording more rights to those that are currently being held down by our justice system whilst others take advantage of them.

and the government should be able to make decisions as they see fit.

That would just be lessening the rights of every regular citizen in the name of the greater good in order to give more power to (and make less answerable) politicians. In this scenario, the politicians would be able to do whatever they like. You said that politicians lie to get into power and then go back on their promises, and that this is one of the factors that has ruined this country. If politicians weren't answerable to the public; they wouldn't have to wait until they were voted into power before they start behaving as they like, they wouldn't need to fool anyone or justify their actions to their people at all.

Replying to #65

Then why are you saying that we need a new system if the old one isn't yet beyond repair and improvement?

Replying to #65

The only people that it would benefit would be those in power and those with the means to gain power.

No i think the system we have + the government having the freedom to make decisions regardless of what voters say + less rights that do nothing for the country, would ultimately work better than what we currently have.
Also the police should have more powers, i suppose this is included in my rights rant.

Replying to #66

that is answered in my next sentance.

msg2009 · #65but of course the people wont vote for it because it doesn't benefit them, and there is the problem.

and i dont see how the only people that would benefit would be the people in power, not if my ideas are all in place.My original words summed it up best i feel, democracy gives people what they want, not what they need.
Im no good with politics, but i know that is true.
There has to be a new/improved way of doing things. The only thing i can think of is to SLIGHTLY cut peoples rights so they cant take advantage of a situation to benefit themselves(criminals are just one example) and give the person/people in power the freedom required to make choices as and when necessary. How far that power extends requires people far cleverer than me to draw the line, im just putting the general idea forward. Maybe the opposition party can overrule it if its too far? i dont know.
Basically todays system with a few tweaks.
Im open to better ideas and open to people telling me why my ideas wouldn't work.Why should we continue as we are when it could be improved?

im better than all of you

msg2009 · #67The only thing i can think of is to SLIGHTLY cut peoples rights so they cant take advantage of a situation to benefit themselves(criminals are just one example) and give the person/people in power the freedom required to make choices as and when necessary.

How will this improve anything? Giving more power to the people in already in authority will do nothing except give them more freedom to do what THEY want. There's already power abuse as there is, how will this help any sort of situation? Granted there are people who do things right, but there's also people who will do them wrong and do it for their own selfish reasons.This would only work if all people in authority were ALL good hearted people with good intentions, but that's not the case.

People, in general, blow huge chunks. Thats why I love this site; you guys kick ass. Well, damn near all of you, anyway.

Natewlie · #69How will this improve anything? Giving more power to the people in already in authority will do nothing except give them more freedom to do what THEY want. There's already power abuse as there is, how will this help any sort of situation? Granted there are people who do things right, but there's also people who will do them wrong and do it for their own selfish reasons.This would only work if all people in authority were ALL good hearted people with good intentions, but that's not the case.

But you can say that about anything, theres always people taking advantage of a situation and that is what i was explaining about rights.
Im not saying take away peoples rights to a normal life, im talking about the rights that serve the country no good whatsoever and are just ridiculous.
nation before individual

Replying to #71

A means can be justified only by its end. But the end in its turn needs to be justified.Soviet Russia, great times.Again, you're assuming that the people in authority are using their position of power in a responsible manner. This means an abuse of power, which happens now, regardless. How will giving these people MORE power help the situation anymore? It will be used to benefit THEIR situation or opinions. Which is exactly what you're opposed, as long as people have some sort of free will or able to do what they want, there will always be people taking advantage of others. Even if we were controlled more and giving people less rights for those who 'deserve it', there's still people taking advantage of them.

But if you read it all you would see that i said SLIGHTLY reduce rights and only the ridiculous ones.
Nothing like soviet russia

Replying to #73

I know, just Nation > Individual reminded me of it.Example of slightly changing rights?

Some examples are above, criminals rights, the medias rights etc.

msg2009 · #65We have SLIGHTLY too many rights(make a note of that word slightly) things should just be backed down SLIGHTLY. Im not saying take away womens votes or any of that before you start, im talking about things that dont help the country. The media's freedom to report on peoples personal lifes is wrong.
I also mean the rights of paedophiles to get a new identity, house and job so they are safe. The children in that area should have the right to be safe.
The rights criminals have, someone can rape, rob, torture and kill a 90 year old woman and nobody can do anything, If someone breaks into your house and you give them a beating, you could go to jail whilst they could get away free.What we need is something like democracy but where the public have SLIGHTLY less power, the government should be able to make decisions as they see fit.
todays system is almost working, just could be improved.
but of course the people wont vote for it because it doesn't benefit them, and there is the problem.

Oh okay, I missed this post, in which case I agree.I wouldn't say the public has less power, just the criminals and medias reporting on people's lives when they clearly don't want it. It's not exactly the public, but the criminals and media. The last part is iffy as any change with the freedom to exchange information (meaning all kinds) is met with extreme opposition.And politicians are politicians. They'll get everyone to like them, even if it means promising the most ridiculous things, it's the reason why I don't vote (don't give me a fucking speech about how I'm not using my right to vote and I should be privileged to be able to do so). Most things that come out of a politicians mouth should be treated like vermin of the earth, although politicians aren't the only ones guilty of this. I hate politicians so much, seriously, if any of my kids become one, I'll be extremely disappointed. I'll only be impressed because they somehow got that successful, but I'll be disappointed that they got into such a shitty profession of lying and misinforming the public. And I live in Canada for Christ's sake, that's the last thing you expect.Although it's toned down a lot lately, nothing is really remarkable in the government besides two parties trying to become one to finally take down the Conservative party, and this was in the talks around last election which was a couple years ago.[me=Natewlie]is an idiot.[/me]

you know, i dont mean to boast but hey for once im on the right lines!!
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100701/tuk-public-asked-which-laws-should-we-sc-dba1618.htmlIm starting to like this new government :)
I KNEW i was onto something, i think david cameron has been reading this thread :P

The public are being asked to nominate unnecessary laws and restrictions on civil liberties that they want to see scrapped.Public asked: Which laws should we scrap?The call comes from Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, who is launching a Your Freedom website at which people will be able to propose ways to get rid of pointless regulation and unnecessary bureaucracy and reduce state intrusion into everyday life.He said that ideas submitted to www.hmg.gov.uk/yourfreedom in the online consultation process would be taken into account in the drafting of a Freedom Bill to be published this autumn with the aim of rolling back unnecessary regulation.Speaking in London later, Mr Clegg will urge members of the public to be "demanding" about their liberties and their rights."What I find especially exciting about this project is that, now we have got the ball rolling, the debate is totally out of government's control," he is expected to say."Real democracy is unspun -it is the raucous, unscripted debates that always throw up the best ideas. So be demanding about your liberty, be insistent about your rights. This is about your freedom, and this is your chance to have your say."