Respecting other people & their Culture

cjdogger posted on the heated debate thread "Routine Infant Circumcision" that since said topic has gone way beyond off topic & has crossed Cultural bashing, that there should be a Cultural dispute thread, or something like it.Now I posted this rant to say that such a thread will just worsen the current situation, people will undoubtedly feel strong towards one's cultural beliefs & bash others'. I'm saying this because it's pretty obvious that a lot of you don't give a rat's ass about other people's culture altogether. You feel outraged when you hear that other people have beliefs & traditions that clash with yours, without even wondering "positively" why they have such & such beliefs or tradition. Before you start bashing other people's cultural beliefs you should first understand their culture using their point of view.Take for example the circumcision thread, guys like elk1007 constantly mock my Culture, even if I give solid statements, is that how a good debater should be? Just sticking to your beliefs & ideas & never giving squat to what the other fellow is saying?Or how about the "Immigration thread", when I stated another aspect of my culture, namely how we value the extended family & how close we are to our relatives, guys like LittleKill jokingly remark me, is that really necessary?And when I defend my Culture, people like Hypr or Bloodvayne remark me as being defensive, of course I am, these are my beliefs you guys are bashing! What, should I just let you do that & let you win? No way, no one's culture is better than anyone else's, no matter how "older" or how "popular" one's culture is.You guys may live somewhere more productive than us, or your civilization maybe "more advanced" than others, but that doesn't mean yours is better.Really, before you say things towards other people's cultures, you should spend time with them, or at least read up on their culture.As I said numerous times, if you want to know another person's culture, go to said person's country & study the culture first hand.

but is in their culture to be bigots so why bother :p

I bother because I consider some of these guys like cjdogger as friends & I don't want to ruin a friendship because of a stupid Cultural dispute, again a very Pinoy trait, valuing your friends.Oh & yeah my original post might get me in trouble for being very aggresive, so if I do get penalized for it, I won't feel bad because I finally said my peace, if I get punished for it, so be it. I take full responsibility for my every action here, that's how much I value RomUlation.

Well he's a pom, so he doesn't really have a culture. I on the other hand do, being about quarter Cambodian, although I don't really do anything about it, like stuff to do with gods and incense burning and whatnot.

Well said Cahos, I back you up all the way. I dislike it when people always talk down about my country and my culture too, but I ignore them because I am aware that they do not know what it's like to be from a 'Third-World' country, or to live in conditions that are not as posh as the developed countries. People should visit other places and experience the culture before they go mocking it and asking you to say something in your native language. (as I get frequently asked to say something in 'Jamaican' :P)

Cahos Rahne Veloza · #1And when I defend my Culture, people like Hypr or Bloodvayne remark me as being defensive, of course I am, these are my beliefs you guys are bashing! What, should I just let you do that & let you win? No way, no one's culture is better than anyone else's, no matter how "older" or how "popular" one's culture is.

That is a VERY SKEWED viewpoint you have!As I recall, it was YOU taking offense from our comments ESPECIALLY when our comments were not even offensive at all. You simply MISUNDERSTOOD what we said and somehow felt offended by our remarks.NO ONE has or had any intent to attack your beliefs Cahos. You simply are just playing victim of 'your own crime'.

Cahos Rahne VelozaOr how about the "Immigration thread", when I stated another aspect of my culture, namely how we value the extended family & how close we are to our relatives, guys like LittleKill jokingly remark me, is that really necessary?And when I defend my Culture, people like Hypr or Bloodvayne remark me as being defensive , of course I am...

All right here, let's take an excerpt of my post in the immigration thread, not to create a flame war, but to prove my point."I can see you have valid reasons and arguments why you would choose to live with your parents/extended family,so on and so forth. What I don't get is the fact that you don't recognize that other people's opinions and reasoning are valid as well. "Read the first line and tell me that is offensive. Seriously. I just pretty much accepted your beliefs right there. You, on the other hand, are CONSISTENTLY trying to prove that you are right, and that no one else's say matters. Another thing:

Cahos Rahne VelozaTake for example the circumcision thread, guys like elk1007 constantly mock my Culture, even if I give solid statements, is that how a good debater should be? Just sticking to your beliefs & ideas & never giving squat to what the other fellow is saying?Or how about the "Immigration thread", when I stated another aspect of my culture, namely how we value the extended family & how close we are to our relatives, guys like LittleKill jokingly remark me, is that really necessary?....What, should I just let you do that & let you win? No way, no one's culture is better than anyone else's, no matter how "older" or how "popular" one's culture is.

Am I wrong here, or are you being a hypocrite? You say people shouldn't mock other peoples' cultures and you should care about their beliefs, but you're practically implying, "Hey, you did it to me, so right back at you! I'm not letting you win the argument."I have lived in both developed nations ( Canada, USA) and a developing nation (Indonesia), in my life. So, I think I have a good grasp on the large gap in the quality of life in those places. This is why I think that people should be more tolerant of cultural differences, and try to accept that maybe some people view things differently, and NOT just enforce and defend your own viewpoint to the death.

I'm Irish, very few people understand our culture at all, but almost everyone thinks that they do.

Cahos Rahne VelozaI bother because I consider some of these guys like cjdogger as friends & I don't want to ruin a friendship because of a stupid Cultural dispute, again a very Pinoy trait, valuing your friends.Oh & yeah my original post might get me in trouble for being very aggressive, so if I do get penalized for it, I won't feel bad because I finally said my peace, if I get punished for it, so be it. I take full responsibility for my every action here, that's how much I value RomUlation.

Well personally, Cahos, I don't have a culture, I abandoned mine a long time ago, I will chill out a bit because I'm a bit of a "hothead" and I don't want to upset you guys, even if I am stubborn, I guess I'll chill out, it's just my feelings that culture is as bad as religion and sometimes it's hard to differentiate between the two... If I don't agree then I won't be so... um... extreme? about it, but I don't say how I was bashing, it was part of the debate... But I need to have more tact, so i'm sorry
The only possible culture I could be classed as is the "gamer" culture in which we all are gamers ;)

Culture is pointless in debate. I don't care how 'special' you think your people are. I don't care if you have a 'long standing tradition' of this and that.These are NOT valid forms of argument. It doesn't matter if it's been happening for a long time.
It doesn't matter if it offends you.
Tolerance and respect are completely different things.Read this again, because you obviously either overlooked it or didn't understand it the first time:

Elk1007I'm not talking about censorship. You can spam your unsupported and illogical ideas all day. I'm an advocate of free speech, and freedom of speech is completely necessary for the scientific method to occur. It's not that I'm closed to religious ideas, but that I understand how valid arguments work. Arguments from emotion and (similarly) religion are never valid because they aren't based on any evidence. That's not my opinion; that is how logic actually works.As to the thread getting locked, that was up to the moderator/admin who locked it. I have no say in that.
LoonyLion commented (I believe after it had been locked) that I was being close minded to the ideas of other cultures.
Although I suspect he misunderstood why I was laughing so hard at your post (which I seriously was :D) I'll explain anyway.There is something that everyone must understand about culture and different ideas before they throw the phrase 'close minded' (which he didn't do, but it is what I assume you both mean).When someone has an idea, whether that be an individual, a group, or an entire culture, I am more than happy to learn about it. I enjoy learning about different ways of life and different practices of philosophy and religion.
I never have and never will say "Don't tell me about your culture. It's dumb and I'm not interested." I respect the fact that cultures and individuals have different points of view, and different ways of life.However, no idea that anyone will ever come up with is exempt from criticism.
This includes religion.
This includes cultural practice.
This includes you and this includes me.I don't agree with the cultural practice (either in the US or in the Philippines) of circumcision. I don't respect the fact that it's usually done before a child can make the choice in the US. I don't respect the fact that boys and women are taught (whether by oral or practical teaching) that the male foreskin is somehow disgusting and that the removing of it makes a boy into a man. I do not respect these ideas because I believe them to be fallacious and harmful to the human mind. Why should someone be stricken socially with shame because they wish to remain whole? Because they wish to remain natural? Foreskin is completely natural and the removal of it has equally negative implications as not removing it.I am not close minded. I considered the ideas you presented. I'm glad you did, because I did not know about people's attitudes toward circumcision in the Philippines. But that does not mean I have to respect an idea that I think is harmful or stupid. I give perfectly valid reasons for my position on the subject, and you call that close minded?If I wished to be close minded, I wouldn't have a well articulated argument against your ideas. I'd simply say "they're dumb" and not know why I really disagreed.
For you, or anyone for that matter, to post their ideas on a debate forum and then start calling people close minded when they disagree is retarded.Why post at all? Do you post ideas expecting people to to agree 100% of the time?
I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just being honest.
I find it a gross misuse of intelligence to call a valid argument 'close minded' without offering any support for such a claim.

We are all human beings. Not one culture can trump another, I missed the conversations that took place earlier, but I fail to understand how one can belittle anothers culture. You would have to walk a mile in their shoes so to speak, and grow up in their culture to fully understand the meaning of it all.In short... Why can't we all just get along? These arguements are pointless.

Replying to #11

Actually I have no culture, that was one of the main reasons I was hateful at the time

Surely a culture is a reflection of the social norms and values of any given society today and not a tradition. Culture may be based on various traditions but cannot be defined by them, for culture to be truely culture it must be vibrant, alive and relflect the ideals and dreams of the current society in which it exists.
Cultures can be weighed against each other on the terms that one culture may cope better than another given similar circumstances.
I was not a part of the debates that spawned this thread, but from what little I understand I think that culture, belief and tradition may have become confused along the way.

woah this is turning to world war 3...well,
point is,
we should just respect each other's culture
so no more world war 3 :P

cjdogger · #12Actually I have no culture, that was one of the main reasons I was hateful at the time

To each his own I suppose. I also have no culture, and see no problem with any culture =/

Replying to #15

Heheh... I'm just an asshole sometimes ^^'
Good to see you aren't

I'm Sorry Cahos Rahne Veloza, but i have a bone to pick. I understand that people can get annoyed by other people saying insensitive things without thinking. I get the picture that this is what you're getting upset about. If this is the case, wouldn't it be apt for you to also follow your own guidelines?:I was browsing one of your topic threads and found you say this on the "Anime Conventions & Cosplay Events" :That's because the Japanese have nothing better to do than grow up to 40 year old Otaku Virgins with no decent life ROFLThis doesn't really doesn't seem like a line that one that is preaching for a greater sensitivty to other peoples cultures would say.

Replying to #17

He posted that?! :-X

I'd think it be useful what Cahos himself has to think of all this :-\

Did you read my next post after that? I made an apology to Tiramisukisu who was herself Japanese & though she was upset about what I said, she did confirm that his boyfriend & his friends do like Anime girls than the real thing :-\. So I did think about what I said AND had you read the root cause of that topic, I was very much ranting on how the younger generation of my countrymen seem to have obssessed on cosplaying so much.