OMFG >:-( AVATAR

I see avatar as a cartoon too

Anime? Cartoons? They're all the same thing. Read the credits(get the Japanese ones) to many your shows and youll figure out that they're all made by some studio in Korea. Read the credits to Naruto(and many other "real Japanese" anime) and you'll figure out that its made by the same animators who did Avatar(namely, Salami studious, Seoul loft, DR movie tinhouse/titmouse animation, JM animation). Personally I prefer Avatar than what's being churned out these days. Avatar is so much more well written.

you forgot sunrise Inc.(known for cowboy bebob and samurai champloo) and they had certainly nothing to do with the creation of avatar.I personaly couldn't care wether it is a cartoon or an anime it't still lame.

Replying to #22

and about that it is not because it's too simplewish to argue? watch gungrave first than you will know what is well wrtten

duderedux · #22Anime? Cartoons? They're all the same thing. Read the credits(get the Japanese ones) to many your shows and youll figure out that they're all made by some studio in Korea. Read the credits to Naruto(and many other "real Japanese" anime) and you'll figure out that its made by the same animators who did Avatar(namely, Salami studious, Seoul loft, DR movie tinhouse/titmouse animation, JM animation). Personally I prefer Avatar than what's being churned out these days. Avatar is so much more well written.

they may be made in the same studios but the big difference is that they have different directors, writers and story board artists and thats what makes the difference its like you can have lots of bands on the same record lable but they are all completely different (unless they're on roadrunner) so animation being made in the same studio does not make them the same thing.i think its a cartoon its a pile of poop aimed at kids, i don't like anything like that i manly whatch things made by the company manga (its the best company pre-2000) with titles like ghost in the shell, ninja scroll, guyver, shadow skill and hundreds more classics so to even put things like avitar and others like it like one piece and othe kiddy things in the same title of anime is a joke

CainMasters · #23you forgot sunrise Inc.(known for cowboy bebob and samurai champloo) and they had certainly nothing to do with the creation of avatar.I personaly couldn't care wether it is a cartoon or an anime it't still lame.
and about that it is not because it's too simplewish to argue? watch gungrave first than you will know what is well wrtten

I didn't include Sunrise because I know sunrise does not use animation outsourcing(except for CG when they use DRmovie check Gundam seed density, imean it density). Gungrave is your best example for good writing? You could have said Monster, Hajime no Ippo, Slam Dunk,Major,Nasu,or any of the Miyazaki movies now these are well written. Mostly sports titles, I know.
Most of the stuff being churned out these days has to do with this formula,or can be labeled into these categories: Magic. the charachters either want to "belong" or "be different". There are Star Wars subtones. They're all teenagers. They are all reluctant anti-heroes. The hero's pseudo-girlfreind or peanut gallery don't know how to keep out of trouble.Gungrave? So he comes back fom the dead for revenge. I liked this story much better when it was called "The Crow".

Replying to #24

Why was it called Ninja Scroll?Anyway.Just because it has blood,gore and T&A or an over-convoluted(but really basic, and can be summarized in a four panel comic ie Evangelion.)story doesnt mean it's for "mature viewers".Avatar really IS meant for kids. And so is One Piece(so much more better than Naruto,or whatever is coming to US shores these days 4kids just messed it up). But if you have an appreciation for plot development and character development, it is something more.You guys really have to diversify what you watch.

Replying to #25

if thats all you caught from the story than I feel sorry for you.its not as simple as revenge seeking if I'd want to point that out than I would have said Afro samurai instead of gungraveand if I'd want to give you my best example than I'd say grave of the fireflies.

duderedux · #25Just because it has blood,gore and T&A or an over-convoluted(but really basic, and can be summarized in a four panel comic ie Evangelion.)story doesnt mean it's for "mature viewers".

nothing to do with it i'm talking about better animation, better stories and not stupid the blood gore and sexual content is not what makes it good its just in the more mature ones because thats what japanese culture go for.how about studio ghibli now there is a set of films watchable for all ages with amazing animation, amazing story lines and no one can argue that i think studio ghibli have produced some of the best anime i have ever seen. so if you think i like it for tits and gore your wrong.

CainMasters · #26if thats all you caught from the story than I feel sorry for you.its not as simple as revenge seeking if I'd want to point that out than I would have said Afro samurai instead of gungraveand if I'd want to give you my best example than I'd say grave of the fireflies.

Grave of the fireflies,(or maybe anything that has to do with "reality", realistic themes are something most anime don't do well) now thats good example.And about Gungrave; yeah, I get it. I didn't give it too much credit when I said it was just The Crow.It's also The Darkness. Simple really. Afro Samurai is good but it's been done(it shares the same lot with some others have you played No more heroes? or maybe watched stallone in Assasins? Again diversify what you read or watch.)

Replying to #27

More mature ones, like what? Give me one and i'll condense it for you.And what do you mean by "better art"? Many anime characters,in many anime, are all drawn alike. Just change their hair style/color or eye color and they're a different charachter(oooh, great technique.)As for "what the japanese go for" read my past post and add these few cliches: boybands( they are more the rock and roll!), girly guys, german stuff, french stuff(I cant belive I was there when the whole "maid" and "street idol" scene hit. ) fear of nukes. Strange attraction to nukes. Crying girls in anime theme songs. Picturing food.The studio Ghibli(Miyazaki) ones are excellent. But you give too much too much credit to the animation "brand"(are you really what you say your age is?, if you are then you'd get it what i mean when i say "brand")Let me remind you that some of their past stories were not written "in-house"(Howl's moving castle, Earthsea).Anyway, If you loved Evangelion heres how the story goes:
Boy has "father issues" .Is taken as a pilot for giant robots by his father.He is to to fght these"angels from who knows where, they're just there Ok. Boy is all whiny, he doesn't wanna drive the robots he wants to be a normal boy and bang(ahem to "mature" for you?) the girl with blue hair,or the other one,the western stereotype(now all she needs are a cowboy hat and boots,while eating a strudel)everyone dies in the end(?) Poetry.EndReal mature.

Replying to #28

What I always refer to when I talk about the actually good parts of gungrave is the story told to explain why brandon has to kill his best friend yet still refuses to and reminicents about their past as street gangsters with harry(that best friend) during their last minutes of life.but you're right it's certainly better to watch a bald youngster jump around and fight against the fire nation(what a great name by the way)now seriously what part of that is supposed to be well written(or at least somewhat innovative)?any plausible reason for your opinion?

Personally, I'm not keen on anime that presumes too much of itself (so-called adult anime to be exact). The plot is oftentimes... overcomplicated to a certain extent. If in mainstream anime you have the teenage boy upstart protagonist, then in mature anime you have the "dark", mysterious types. And no, I haven't watched most of the anime mentioned in this thread; just speaking from experience.
Avatar appeals to the audience it's meant for, and it delivers. Are 6-12 year olds going to really care about "mature" plots, extensive character development, etc. ? NO. When I was 7 I first watched DBZ just to see the characters turn Super Saiyan, only later did I understand the plot. I don't get it why people gripe about Avatar, because maybe it's not MEANT to appeal to you.
Doraemon FTW.

that wasn't the point of my arguement

duderedux · #22Avatar is so much more well written.

thats what I don't getI myself don't always watch that, how you refered to it adult anime.

Just posting my 2 cents... Let duderedux explain what he meant. :o

to be onest if i was still a kid i'd probably like the kids stuff like avitar. whan i was young i did whatch pokemon and DBZ and bayblade (i loved the toys) but now i'm older they are a little cheesy and i don't like cheesy anime even if its for the adult market.

dudereduxAnd what do you mean by "better art"? Many anime characters,in many anime, are all drawn alike. Just change their hair style/color or eye color and they're a different charachter(oooh, great technique.)Anyway, If you loved Evangelion heres how the story goes:
Boy has "father issues" .Is taken as a pilot for giant robots by his father.He is to to fght these"angels from who knows where, they're just there Ok. Boy is all whiny, he doesn't wanna drive the robots he wants to be a normal boy and bang(ahem to "mature" for you?) the girl with blue hair,or the other one,the western stereotype(now all she needs are a cowboy hat and boots,while eating a strudel)everyone dies in the end(?) Poetry.End

there is more then just characters there is the background and how its used and that why i like pre 2000 anime as its more drawn rather then on a computer.and i have now finished Evangelion didn't think much of it, it had potential to be great but they srewwed it with the ending but i'm about to wathch the films which are ment to be a re-telling of the end so hopefully thats a bit better.i'd also like to point out that we forget that anime has genres within its self like romance, action, thriller, kids stuff and many more so just because we like anime doesn't mean we like it all.
also i think the difference between the story telling within series, films and OVA's are huge can make all the difference.

CainMasters · #31that wasn't the point of my arguementthats what I don't getI myself don't always watch that, how you refered to it adult anime.

I didn't and never refered to Avatar as Adult anime or as an anime for that matter. You dont get the difference between adult and mature.If you are refering back to storyboards and stuff, i would like to note that some storyboarders in that Avatar show are Japanese. So my original point is that It is not "Anime" but it is "Technically" Anime because it was animated by the same people/studios.As for that " being on roadrunner" comment. Anime from TV Tokyo is like that theyre all the same.I watch because its more entertaining than most of whats out there that you compare it to. Same with One Piece.As far as Genres, most anime oversimplifies, romances are romances, action is action. the Girls in romances are always really dead-desperate for some scrawny "cool" charachter. And the heroes of action are always "ill go train to make myself stronger"!I agree with you on pre 2000 anime, before '98, but not all of it (these were the times when they were slinging out crap like Slayers) and when everyone used to call it Japanimation.As for evangelion, those bonus endings are just milking it (clip shows, alternate ending). I would suggest Patlabor instead.

CainMasters · #29What I always refer to when I talk about the actually good parts of gungrave is the story told to explain why brandon has to kill his best friend yet still refuses to and reminicents about their past as street gangsters with harry(that best friend) during their last minutes of life.but you're right it's certainly better to watch a bald youngster jump around and fight against the fire nation(what a great name by the way)now seriously what part of that is supposed to be well written(or at least somewhat innovative)?any plausible reason for your opinion?

That scene? Typical twist. It's because the Japanese never say what they really mean. A lot of thingsIts innovative as far as cartoons on Nick go. The characters are well written,dynamic(they change characther in the course of the story, "grow"), they have backgrounds, motivations, side stories, and dare i say it, emotions. Unlike all these one dimensional single purpose, single minded charachters. Look they don't change attitudes about anything. No real human charachter stays that way(Go watch Monster, realistic anime,whith "human" charachters).

Replying to #34

i might just do that, its funny its one of the ones i was going to get years ago but never did looks a bit like appleseed.

Yes do so. It's a good break from whatever's out there(Gundam seed/seed density/00).And don't get me started on Appleseed(haha).

why whats wrong with appleseed (old one not that computer animated abomination they made)
never bothered to get in to gundam

duderedux...(Go watch Monster, realistic anime,whith "human" charachters).

Monster (anime and manga) is quite engaging actually. Good plot and character development.

duderedux · #34I didn't and never refered to Avatar as Adult anime or as an anime for that matter. You dont get the difference between adult and mature.If you are refering back to storyboards and stuff, i would like to note that some storyboarders in that Avatar show are Japanese. So my original point is that It is not "Anime" but it is "Technically" Anime because it was animated by the same people/studios.As for that " being on roadrunner" comment. Anime from TV Tokyo is like that theyre all the same.I watch because its more entertaining than most of whats out there that you compare it to. Same with One Piece.As far as Genres, most anime oversimplifies, romances are romances, action is action. the Girls in romances are always really dead-desperate for some scrawny "cool" charachter. And the heroes of action are always "ill go train to make myself stronger"!I agree with you on pre 2000 anime, before '98, but not all of it (these were the times when they were slinging out crap like Slayers) and when everyone used to call it Japanimation.

that post wasn't diricted towards yours but towars the post of BloodVayne -.-

My bad.Anyways,Equitypetey,I guess we're on the same page on the CG appleseed.