Obama vs. McCain

I tried this in three college classes and no one responded, I guess most don't like to debate. Looking here I see there is a pretty good mix of smart people so I thought.....meh, might as well try it. There is no need to tell who you are voting for, just post a pro and a con for each candidate.Obama
Pro - Great charisma. The man believes in what he preaches and he could probably be a really great leader.
Con - His social health care will have Americans waiting in line for health care much like Canada.McCain
Pro - He will make a great Commander in Chief, and Sarah Palin adds executive experience to the ticket.
Con - His amnesty for illegal immigrants bothers me when we have thousands of Americans out of jobs.I have many more pros and cons to each candidate but I thought I would start this off first to see if it even runs well.

i honestly dont like either of thempro:obama makes really good points in his speeches and to simply put it he sounds really smart; great choice of a vice president
con:obama maybe charismatic and all but hes too yound and inexperience for THE office.pro:really experienced, knows america's problem(whether he addresses it or not, i have no comment on)
con:hes really old, i honestly think he made a bad choice of a vice presidentbut then again i havent been paying much attention with my darn school work killing me slowly

Demetious · #1Obama
Pro - Great charisma. The man believes in what he preaches and he could probably be a really great leader.
Con - His social health care will have Americans waiting in line for health care much like Canada.McCain
Pro - He will make a great Commander in Chief, and Sarah Palin adds executive experience to the ticket.
Con - His amnesty for illegal immigrants bothers me when we have thousands of Americans out of jobs.I have many more pros and cons to each candidate but I thought I would start this off first to see if it even runs well.

Disagree with you there Demetious. I do not think Sarah Palin will add any 'executive' experience as she simply does not have enough (2 years as Governor). The same could be said for Barack Obama. Though he is the younger of the two presidential candidates, he might not have enough experience as well to lead the country, also he makes some promises that are mighty lofty, but he seems like a person who will keep his word. His energy plans do need attention, especially the ones that contain renewable energy.On the issue of John McCain: He is 72 years old, and in my opinion he should be home with his grandkids. His policies do mimic that George Bush and are clearly going to worsen the state of the American economy, not to mention the foreign relations with other countries. He does not know how to give a speech to an audience, as he constantly refers to them as 'my friends', which could be seen as a tool to lure the audience from the big picture of his speech: no 'change'Breakdown:
Both candidates would make good Commander in Chiefs, however, with the state of the economy, foreign affairs and energy prices, the clear candidate for America should be Mr. Obama. However, he made a serious blunder in not choosing Hilary Clinton as his running mate. Due to this, McCain saw the opening and immediately chose female candidate after little deliberation. There are 2 months left (roughly), so we'll see how America's polls change.
And the rest of your pros and con I agree with...

Demetious · #1Con - His social health care will have Americans waiting in line for health care much like Canada.

Funny, but most Canadians I know disagree with that... Also having a social health plan doesn't mean you can't pay for improved service yourself. Hell, I'm Danish, probably one of the most socialistic countries you'll find in the western world and our social health plan includes free hospital care and the only place we have waiting lists are for major organ transplants. And it's not like you don't have that either, regardless of whether it's free or not.What I don't get about the American election is how much mud is being thrown, seriously, TV ads about with straight out lies about your opponents and no one gives a shit? I think it's sad that Americans actually put up with all the mud flinging, but I guess there are just too many gullible people who actually do believe the ads.

Seph,
How much of your paycheck paid to your government? I lived on the border of Canada for 20 years. All my friends still laugh when I say "Eh?" and I know people who come to the states to pay for health care.dmac,
Sarah Palin has been a little more than just a Governer which already puts her above Obama in experience. She was on the city council for 4 years, mayor for 6 years, has chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Committie for over a year, and has been a governer for two years. Thats 13 years of Executive decision making. Board members at that level and executive positions do not allow for the position of "present" which Obama has clearly voted around 130 times. Sure Obama has voted with the Senate way more than 130 times but the votes he voted yes for are unanimous desicions on things like, recognizing some special day or commemorating an event somewhere. I have followed politics since 2001 and I feel very strongly about my convicions and I enjoy hearing how other people think. I asked a girl one time who had a bumper sticker that said Obama 08' so I asked her why she was voting for him. She said she was pro choice, for gay rights, for amnesty of illegals, and against the second ammendment (which almost made me cry, lol) All I could say was, you got me, you should vote for Obama.Here's how I see America.Republicans (majority) Believe the glass is half full. They see America as a great country with many opportunities. I know I could be a millionaire if I really put my mind to it. I could literally buy and sell crap to people on Ebay and become rich. It's all about self discipline and keeping a positive attitude. They are also for power to the people and very little government involvment. They believe in traditional lifestyles where a mother and a father raise children as a family. Many have religious lifestyles and believe in marriage and life.Democrats (majority) Believe that America is a bad place and always needs fixing. Most are hell bent on bringing people who make it down to their level and killing small business in America. They want HUGE government to oversee everything in life and to see how much the government can give them. Democrats seem to think tax hikes big spending solve problems which I disagree with.A point to argue, we are spending tons of money in this nation right now. We have also seen Sep 11th, 2 major hurricanes, two wars, economy bailouts, and a raise in the worlds oil supply. If Clinton had to deal with that, I believe we would be screwed. Again, that's just my opinion.

Obama:Pro
When Obama speaks, you can tell he is far more intelligent than McCain is. His points are not always logically valid, but he rarely makes big mistakes in his reasoning. He supports equality and is pro-choice (which in turn is actually an endorsement of freedom from religion). He even talks of Atheism as if it's something decent (unlike most politicans who do nothing but pander to the religious majority). He also favors diplomacy to warmongering.Con
Panders sometimes, and has effectively pointless 'change/hope' rhetoric. He's a politican (automatic con lol).

Summary
He chose a good VP and panders less than McCain. Sounds intelligent and usually gives decently well thought out arguments (for a politican anyway).
Probably has my vote. Many say he's inexperienced compared to McCain, but McCain's experience isn't neccesary positive. More on that in his section.McCainPros:
I can honestly think of none. I am not being biased on purpose. I have researched both candidates and can honest say that I find nothing promising about McCain.Cons/Summary:
Panders to the religious constantly.
Chose an inexperienced VP after months of political attacks about Obama's experience (hypocrite).
Most probably picked Palin as a pander to female Clinton supporters, which probably means he thinks woman only want Clinton because she too has a vagina.
Incredibly old; might die in office (not j/k).
Has changed most of his views since he became a republican candidate. Most probably did this as a pander to conservatives.
Pro-life and anti-gay marriage, which means he is (again) pandering to the religious (something our constitution forbids in law practice).
Because he's anti-gay marriage, it means he doesn't support gender equality.
Wants to bomb Iran.
Supports to failing war in Iraq (I say failing but mean pointless).Sorry for the bias, but I've been researching both candidates for a few months now and I hate McCain more and more every time he opens his mouth.Sorry for the seem

I'm not american, but I say Obama, because it is plainly obvious to me that mccain is george w. bush all over again.

Replying to #7

I second that, I can only hope Obama.

Loonylion · #7I'm not american, but I say Obama, because it is plainly obvious to me that mccain is george w. bush all over again.

It's funny, because that's the rhetoric of the democratic party."McCain! More of the Same!"But for once, I completely agree with it ;D

I'd go for Obama too. I have a crush.. on Obama :P

Unfortunately the majority of the South is politically retarded and seems to endorse McCain. Although this shouldn't be surprising given that the South generally votes Rep., it still goes to show how depressingly blind most people seem to be.America in general is just f'ed up, probably beyond repair at this point. In reality, it does not matter which candidate eventually wins, however, I do still have a preference for Obama.

Replying to #11

Fixed.

i just hope the polls are wrong and these republicans dont really think this palin woman is a good thing. how can a woman that made rape victims pay for their own rape kits be a good thing for this country. she is against abortion even if the pregnancy was the cause of incest! so if a father rapes his daughter, tough kid you having that baby. and if mccain should fall severely ill which lets face it for a 74 yr old guy its not exactly hard to imagine. strokes, heart attacks etc. happens very suddenly and will incapacitate a person for the rest of their life sometimes. then we will be screwed, i dont want this palin to be president of this country. not to mention a republican committee are the people who have brought charges up on a very large amount of politicians in alaska for corruption. she was part of that alaska political system and we have seen her if not outright lie definitely bend the truth. and you cant even say the democrats are going after republicans cause the committee thats bringing the charges is a republican committee. did i mention palin is also being investigated and i think they have charges on her already that she had to get a lawyer for the other week. it might be for another thing but still this woman is corrupt as hell. how can republicans be so blind to say yes this woman and this guy (who's basically bringing bush 4 more years) is gonna be great for america.we are screwed. i hope obama wins because i know he doesn't have a lot of experience but for a man that had no chance of being the democratic nominee a year ago to now that shows you how determined and committed he is and how hard he will work to make it to a goal he has set for himself and that matters a lot lot me. this is a educated man and he is obviously going to work his butt off. so regardless of how little experience he has, i think it matters very little. because really how does being a govenour or a senator prepare you for being president. nothing prepares you, not really. you learn on the job and i believe past presidents have said that. you have stuff that comes up and its not that you have to know exactly everything its when situations happen are you prepare to not sleep and get yourself informed then make your moves.i also have wondered why mccain wants to be president, now especially of all times. we need someone strong that will work 20 hour days and really fix stuff not let his "friends" continue to run this country and the middle class to the ground. i mean at 74 yrs old you are at the golden years of your life. time you should spend with your family relaxing and enjoying your family and life because lets face it you dont know how long you may have. at 20 you may not know what might come but at 74 you definitely know you dont have much time left. i would think its pretty selfish to want to be president at 74 at a time when the nation is so messed up that you wouldn't want to give people even more uncertainty by trying to run for a job you might not be able to finish.

that was the best thing I've read today ;D
on a side note, something during McCain's acceptance speech just screamed at me, saying that he doesn't actually know what he is doing. like My American History class did an essay last week on the elections, and everyone decided to criticize McCain and support Barack Obama.
before i forget...

Loonylion · #7I'm not American, but I say Obama, because it is plainly obvious to me that McCain is George w. bush all over again.

i could not have said any better.

McCain does not give a shit, he's not the one who'll be calling the shots if he ever makes it to office. I mean seriously, does it look like he's even trying? I wouldn't be surprised if this election wasn't rigged more than usual.Picking Palin is just bullshit on so many fronts it's hard for me to swallow that there exist people in this country who are complete morons. A democracy/republic is just fine and dandy in theory, but if the majority of the populace is lacking in the intelligence department... Seriously just look where we are.Palin was chosen to get those women who were going to vote for Hilary on the rep. side (if you're going to "switch sides" simply because of a woman, that seriously makes question the judgment of these female voters) and to take away attention from himself. No longer are we dealing with some old gone-with-the-times dude, now he's got a hip 'n trendy woman by his side to garner the attention of "change".Alaska? Well if people have been paying attention, Alaska has been a recent and past hotspot for oil refinery. Guess what though? No go. Wildlife sanctions and the like have made trying to setup oil rigs in Alaska nearly impossible.... That is until Palin got in the picture. I wouldn't be surprised if Palin was chosen specifically so she could influence Alaskan jurisdiction and pave the way for this exact solution.Of course this could all be coincidence... But we all know how coincidences work in politics.

Demetious · #1McCain
Pro - He will make a great Commander in Chief, and Sarah Palin adds executive experience to the ticket.

Demetious · #5Sarah Palin has been a little more than just a Governer which already puts her above Obama in experience. She was on the city council for 4 years, mayor for 6 years, has chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Committie for over a year, and has been a governer for two years. Thats 13 years of Executive decision making. Board members at that level and executive positions do not allow for the position of "present" which Obama has clearly voted around 130 times. Sure Obama has voted with the Senate way more than 130 times but the votes he voted yes for are unanimous desicions on things like, recognizing some special day or commemorating an event somewhere.

Hahahaha,Sarah Palin is more of a pro to the Democrats, not McCain. Palin's executive experience (oh wow, 2 years of governorship, that's not even close to a full-term!) is riddled with underhanded bullshit that is now biting her in the ass. Not only do you have the Troopergate Scandal which is becoming an inflated blister, and the records of her Bridge to Nowhere project which became a huge political blunder of hers, but you also have the records of how Palin underhandedly governed Alaska by leeching off the rest of US via taxes.Yes, Sarah Palin leeched off American taxpayers to balance her state budget, which pisses me off. The portion of my paycheck that gets taxed is supposed to go to the US Government only, NOT to the state of Alaska just so that they can cover their own ass. Let me ask you this, is THAT the kind of person you want serving in the White House?

Demetious · #5Republicans (majority) Believe the glass is half full. They see America as a great country with many opportunities. I know I could be a millionaire if I really put my mind to it. I could literally buy and sell crap to people on Ebay and become rich. It's all about self discipline and keeping a positive attitude. They are also for power to the people and very little government involvment. They believe in traditional lifestyles where a mother and a father raise children as a family. Many have religious lifestyles and believe in marriage and life.Democrats (majority) Believe that America is a bad place and always needs fixing. Most are hell bent on bringing people who make it down to their level and killing small business in America. They want HUGE government to oversee everything in life and to see how much the government can give them. Democrats seem to think tax hikes big spending solve problems which I disagree with.

Oh ok, so let me get this straight. The United States is facing a huge economic disaster right now, so the majority of Republicans are supposed to play delusional and say "We're not in a recession! What are you talking about?" while the majority of Democrats play 'chicken little' and say "Folks, we're in deep shit!"?I hope you do realize that the political scale is spectrum from strong conservatives (reactionaries) to strong liberals (radicals), as opposed to your stereotypical black-and-white perspective. You can also take into account that many Republicans do hold liberal values, as well as many Democrats holding conservative values as well. Why do you think the terms (which seem like an oxymoron) "conservative Democrat" and "liberal Republican" exist?Back on topic, I'm voting for Obama. Here's why.I trust Obama with handling my country more than McCain. Obama certainly has more credibility than McCain in terms of the economy (which is my top concern because I don't want this country to face another 'Great Depression'). In regards of taxes, I don't give a shit. I would rather face a high tax than see my total assets and savings being worth almost nothing. And besides, I know both Obama and McCain will tax us up our ass anyways due to the frailing economy, so all those statements that you've heard from them regarding taxes is bullshit.Regarding foreign policy, Obama's approach of "speaking softly and carry a big stick" is certainly a more better approach than McCain's aggressive approach. The United States has enough enemies already, and we certainly do not need any more. You can argue about how McCain's staunch and aggressive stance is somehow a more better attitude to defend the United States, but I certainly am positive that McCain would put this country in a more grave danger with his aggressive policy, especially with Sarah Palin's judgment on Russia (watch Palin's interview with Charles Gibson.)And speaking of judgment, that is one of the things I look for from the President of United States along with character and integrity. Obama has so far demonstrated great character and judgment. Sure, he requested lots of earmarks, but at least he was open and honest about it, and none of them were as ridiculous as Palin's. McCain has great character as well, but unfortunately his judgment as of late has been poor: McCain jumped the ship from his maverick position to supporting Bush 90% of the time, has flip-flopped on his stances on certain issues, ESPECIALLY the economy (not to mention McCain admitted that he is weak on the economy.) With that said, McCain's choice of VP is a total flop as Palin only offers just a female face, but almost no credibility to his ticket whatsoever. I have no clue as of why McCain didn't pick Romney as his VP since Romney could help McCain's ticket with strong economic credentials PLUS, Romney unlike Palin served a full term as Governor. Obama unlike McCain chose his VP wisely as Biden can cover Obama's main weakpoint which is foreign policy.

i am a stupid little kid who knows nothing about politics and that voting crap ??? but here is my opinion.DON'T VOTEnone of the people deserve to get voted on because:1. sorry black dudes, but some things belong to white people, namely government stuff and umm, other white stuff :P2. mcCain is an old biddy who looks kinda faggy so umm don't vote for him?so don't vote because well, if u vote for obama its going to make all the other countries go think the US is a shit nation because we have a black president ( NO i am not a racist, if that was what u were thinking ). and don't vote for mcCain unless you want to see an old, white fag on the tv about every time there is a national crysis or somthing like thatfor those of u posting on this subject, try finding something else to do because no one really reads this crap
( u can see im obviously bored :o

Replying to #17

Not voting does nothing.
It's not like buying choice between two products.
Fewer people buy one brand, that brand is more likely to fail.
If fewer people vote, the person the would have not voted for is more likely to win.

Also if you don't vote and you don't like the result you have no right to bitch.

Demetious · #1Con - His social health care will have Americans waiting in line for health care much like Canada.

This.... is not true, from my experiences. I have lived there for 6 years, and not once did I spend hours waiting in line for health care. If you still think that this "social" health care is bad and that privatized health care is good, then wake up and smell the roses. Watch Sicko. It's biased, but a revelation nonetheless.

W€$i am a stupid little kid who knows nothing about politics and that voting crap ???
...
so don't vote because well, if u vote for obama its going to make all the other countries go think the US is a shit nation because we have a black president ( NO i am not a racist, if that was what u were thinking ). and don't vote for mcCain unless you want to see an old, white fag on the tv about every time there is a national crysis or somthing like that
...
for those of u posting on this subject, try finding something else to do because no one really reads this crap
...

You said it yourself. Seriously, if you have these beliefs, please explain them and back them up, LOGICALLY. And why did you reply in the first place...