I Have A Dream

I have a dream. I dream that one day people will be able to engage in meaningful debate on these boards, with 99% of all posts being relevant and constructive. I dream that one day people who put time in effort into their posts will be rewarded with recognition and praise, not simply ignored because their post contains more than two sentences. I even dare to hope beyond hope that moderate viewpoints will be de rigueur, and that although extreme viewpoints will still abound they will not be confused with those balanced views expressed by neutral parties.I dream of a forum where fallacies ad hominem are endangered, and where people can learn how to carry a valid argument without fear of agendas or personal attacks (unless we get a Flaming Board, herp derp) by simply engaging in debate with those who have experience.Then again, I also dream of being a god and exercising my godly powers on humanity for my own sick amusement. I figure it's more likely to happen, too.

Four score and seven months ago, our admins brought forth on this domain a new website, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all roms are created free.Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that website, or any website, so conceived and dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here wagered their pride that their beliefs might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate... We cannot consecrate... We cannot hallow this ground. The foolish men, living and dead, who struggled here, have desecrated it, far above our own power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor much care about what we say here, but it will never be changed by what they've done here. It is for us the wise, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who debated here have thus far so annoyingly stalled. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us - that from these dishonoured idiots we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of stubbornness - that we here highly resolve that these morons will have argued in vain - that this website, under Seph, shall have a new birth of intellect - and that debates: between people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

[joke] Sorry it's more than two sentences so I pretended your post didn't exist. [/joke]I think that be excellent and it would be nice for that to happen. The amount of spam or posts that are off topic is startling. Not to mention the flaming... It's a debate section, not a "hey come in here and flame people who's opinion you don't agree with." I also dream of civilised debate..

Hey, I know. We could make this thread legible and discuss things seriously like adults, and maybe people will get the hint and our example will be emulated throughout the forums! Let's make this thread an example of good forum use.

We could indeed! And seeing as though we're being civilised and not hog tieing each other, then we're already setting teh example... Result. Then again, I wonder how many people will actually read this, probably because the majority of people only care about themselves and their own feelings. Understanding is a thing that escapes people, how upsetting.

Yes, well, empathy isn't exactly a trait you see often nowadays. My money's on someone wandering into this topic with nothing on their minds except how to increase their post count - or worse, a pseudo-intellectual who can't really spell/reason/construct an understandable argument.

Yes.

Suiseiseki · #6Yes, well, empathy isn't exactly a trait you see often nowadays. My money's on someone wandering into this topic with nothing on their minds except how to increase their post count - or worse, a pseudo-intellectual who can't really spell/reason/construct an understandable argument.

Damn, I'm using pseudo-intellectual sometime before this week is over.I'd be okay arguing with complete idiots, as long as their grammar is fucking PERFECT.
Grammar is usually the first-step indicator of an idiot so chances are, we eliminate 99.9% of all idiots by this method, at least, I hope so...

I've realised something. Does the average parent ever bother to teach their children the value of objectivity, and that being a total ass is not a good thing? There aren't many role models advocating either of these two, huh?Meh. If there's one thing I know, a big reason people don't think clearly is because they're too preoccupied with emotions. Too preoccupied with resentment, fear, fanaticism, everything really.Also, that people just LOVE to cram masses of individuals under one label, refusing to acknowledge them as fellow human beings. Also, that no one gives a shit about the Geneva Conventions. Also, that humans have the capacity to maim, dismember, and torture those of their own kind, even the youth, of sheer pleasure. Also...Gah! Debates always depress me!

Replying to #9

Of all the topics to go off-topic on, I must go off-topic a little bit to explain why people only think with their emotions and not their true cognitive ability, and why it is futile to argue with those people.I've heard of this theory called the Triune Brain Theory. It's not exactly accepted by all psychologists, but for its applied uses, it makes sense and it stands true in all of the cases I've run into.The Triune Brain Theory states that the mind is divided into 3 subparts, the Reptillian Brain, the Mammalian Brain, and the Thinking Brain. Each of these work together, yet not harmoniously. The Reptillian controls things that are needed for survival, like thirst, hunger, sex, very primitive drives. The Mammalian controls emotions, and the Thinking brain controls the objective, rational portion of the brain. However, the Mammalian can override or hijack the Thinking brain, and the Reptilian can go further and override the Mammalian, which then overrides the Thinking brain.This is why when a person who is very emotional, is not rational, and if you waste your time arguing with someone who is not thinking rationally, there is virtually NO WAY for you to convince them rationally to see your side of the point. I don't bother arguing with people that think emotionally, because there is no point. No matter how much evidence you provide them, they will still believe that they are right, because the emotional brain convinces them that they are right, not the rational one.

Replying to #10

Que the religion debate!

MessoMesso · #9I've realised something. Does the average parent ever bother to teach their children the value of objectivity, and that being a total ass is not a good thing? There aren't many role models advocating either of these two, huh?Meh. If there's one thing I know, a big reason people don't think clearly is because they're too preoccupied with emotions. Too preoccupied with resentment, fear, fanaticism, everything really.Also, that people just LOVE to cram masses of individuals under one label, refusing to acknowledge them as fellow human beings. Also, that no one gives a shit about the Geneva Conventions. Also, that humans have the capacity to maim, dismember, and torture those of their own kind, even the youth, of sheer pleasure. Also...Gah! Debates always depress me!

It's human to confuse emotions with rational thinking. We're all guilty of it, and no one is truly 'open minded'. That's the way I see it.The one thing I don't like and absolutely hate in any debate is when someone makes a point, then doesn't explain it, and once they do explain it, it's because of some personal issue that they have and it's about fifty lines long. Once it gets to that point, I stop replying to that person. I really don't care.Or that I say something and they don't really say anything.

Replying to #11

Err, if it's about all those alsos of mine, I really meant to say that it's really pointless to expect a majority of humans to start thinking clearly if nothing about human nature changes. It's not just in many humans to start thinking rationally; it's something that has to be learned, isn't it? Clearing your head and thinking rationally? Emotions aren't bad, I just wish that people could keep them under control. Too bad that isn't an innate ability in our species.Also... debates often get me rambling. Yet another reason why I dislike getting into them. Oh sigh...PS: I wish I wasn't human. Maybe then, I'd be able to think logically without falling into existential despair, and also keep myself from rambling! That'd be great!

I love you guys so much. Really, I'd hug every single person who has posted in this thread so far.Also, Triune Brain Theory is basically the same as what Freud posited in regards to ego, superego and id (not respectively, also these were more sexually oriented models).

insanecrazy07 · #8Damn, I'm using pseudo-intellectual sometime before this week is over.I'd be okay arguing with complete idiots, as long as their grammar is fucking PERFECT.
Grammar is usually the first-step indicator of an idiot so chances are, we eliminate 99.9% of all idiots by this method, at least, I hope so...

I've found that people who take the care of making sure their grammar and spelling are both to a high standard tend to subject their arguments to a similar sort of treatment. There are of course exceptions (I miss you, dnd...) but I find it's a good rule of thumb that people with a good grasp of the mechanics of the English language are likely to offer an intelligent, reasoned rebuttal or agreement.

Replying to #12

I'm not expecting total rationality from people; I like debating with people who have made their points clearly because it's what they think based on certain experience mixed with common sense mixed with verifiable sources of legitimate information. It makes life fun. And so does emotion - hell, it's something I'm taking advantage of to give me one hell of a ride through life. At the moment I'm enjoying the feeling of being utterly lost by going out somewhere on a bus or cycling aimlessly out of the city/into the suburbs. Next week I think I might try euphoria or existential despair. A couple of weeks ago I was quite interested in the feeling of emptiness you get when someone you love leaves you (really interesting, actually - lasted for about a week and a half. Yeah, it was tough, but also quite entertaining from a certain point of view). Emotions are fun stuff, they're an experience.Rambling (albeit intelligent rambling) is totally fine, as long as we can see where you're going with it and that it's at least reasonably relevant.

[me=snebbers]hugs Suiseiseki[/me]Well that sucks then because when I make my point, while accepting of other peoples, I'm often considered wrong because people don't like it or don't agree with it.I'm not sorry if you don't like the truth sometimes world but stuff it.I may not always be right, in fact I doubt I am ever right, I've never considered myself to be right. I just don't get people these days suiseiseki.

Replying to #13

Completely agreed there.

Replying to #13

I think I just found my soul mate, in a joking way. I re-read that and thought "Wow stalker alert."

I have a headache so I'd rather not read these walls o' text (I doubt I'd disagree anyway), but I'll just say that I'd look forward to meeting any of you in any kind of intellectual battle, head-to-head as it were.Of course, an amiable cooperation is always preferable, but I relish the occasional challenge.

Replying to #15

Like Supremacy, right?

Replying to #16

*taps nose*

"I am William Wallace. And I see a distinct lack of my countrymen,
here in defiance of intelligent debate! You have come to argue as intellectuals. And
intellectuals you are! What will you do without your intelligence? Will you spam?"
"OMFG HAX!!11?11!!1" - the veteran shouted. "Yes! We will
spam - and live!"
"Yes!" Wallace shouted back. "Take part in intelligent debate and you may die. Spam and you
will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now,
would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for
one chance, just one chance, to come back here as young men and tell
our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take
our sensibilities!"

Yeah, but the Scots got slaughtered by my ancestors.