Z
LoonylionAmericans don't get statuary paid holiday either. You have to work for a company for a few years, then you start accumulating paid holiday at a rate of 1 day per year you worked there. in most other developed countries you get two or three weeks, then you accumulate on top of that.
For real? That's even worse than corporations in Malaysia...And we're a third world country.
Paid annual leave for employees:Less than two years of service : 8 days
Two or more but less than 5 years of service : 12 days
Over five years of service : 16 days
LoonylionDADT makes it illegal for gays to serve.
It only bans you from serving if you say you are gay. But if you keep it out from the record, you can serve, is that right?
And if you are already in the service, then you want to be gay all of the sudden but still want to serve, you should not tell anybody or else you get booted out. And your officers and even fellow soldiers are prevented by the law from asking you if you are gay or not, is that right?
Isn't that what DADT is all about? And when they repealed it, all those in service that are secretly gay, can come out in the open and be gay, and even be joined by those gays that wants to serve. Is those info true?
Replying to #42
Not only, if they have reason to suspect someone is gay (via, say, rumors) then they can 'investigate'. And if it turns out one is gay, they were expelled under DADT. Essentially, as Loony said, DADT discouraged gays from the military. Discrimination, nothing more.
Replying to #42
Being gay is not always a choice, you can't just "want to be gay" and then become gay.
Anyway, yes, that is the gist of DADT. Gays couldn't mention their sexuality, or anything related, otherwise, they'd face being, as you put it, "booted out".
Replying to #42
Yes, gays in the military can now admit to being gay, rather than hiding it, or lying about it.
Ah, thanks for clarifying those info.I just hope that those straight soldiers will treat the gay soldiers with dignity and respect that they always showed in their fellow men.This is the 21st century, if they let women join the military in the 20th century, I think its time that we let gay men and women in the 21st century... and who knows, we might let children join in the 22nd century.
D
Replying to #44
o.o
That would be....horrific. And to clarify, children have always served in various military forces across the world.
Wrong? Yes. But it happens.
Anyway, gays serving in the military is
far different than children serving.
damanali · #44This is the 21st century, if they let women join the military in the 20th century, I think its time that we let gay men and women in the 21st century... and who knows, we might let children join in the 22nd century.
I know a butch who can easily throw me off a bridge after swinging me around and making balloon-poodles out of me.
I say they're more than capable as soldiers. It's their fellow soldiers who need to be more accepting. ;\
And children...Now that's going to spark another debate altogether. I for one think kids should stay in blankets until they're tall enough to actually touch their opponents biceps.
DADT was a GREAT idea. It doesn't make it illegal for gays to serve, it makes illegal for gays who are serving to acknowledge that fact publicly. Who here would like to be shooting at terrorists and have someone randomly walk up to you and say?: [quote author=gay soldier]I'm gay.[/quote]In response to this I know I won't be joining the US military until DADT gets back in place.
R
treec_cyndaDADT was a GREAT idea. It doesn't make it illegal for gays to serve, it makes illegal for gays who are serving to acknowledge that fact publicly. Who here would like to be shooting at terrorists and have someone randomly walk up to you and say?:
In response to this I know I won't be joining the US military until DADT gets back in place.
I wouldn't care, If I'm in a life or death situation and he has a gun and he's on MY side, then so be it.
In those situations, coming out alive is top priority, all other tidbits can be negotiated later.
gavilatiusJimi Nelson
11/6/2010
Writ-1100
R. AllenOpenly Gay in the Military Many people have wondered about the issue of Homosexuality in the military. Some say they would allow it, other say that it would ruin the foundations of the Armed Forces. The ones who say yes on this debate explain that the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell†policy must be abolished due to the fears that openly gay men and women would be turned down due to their sexuality. On the other side, the ones who say no proceed to point out that it would be a breach of trust between soldiers on the battlefield. The situation seems to be split straight down the middle between the two parties. Allowing openly gay people to serve in the military would bolster recruitment allowing recruiters to reach their recruitment goals and serve as a testament to America’s well established belief in and its long-standing struggles for equality. The Military Personnel Eligibility Act of 1993 or “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell†policy declares that gay men and women could serve in the military but had to keep quiet about it. In truth, even though the Pentagon agreed to stop asking about sexuality in recruitment forms and interviews, but it never agreed to stop investigating who in military service were gay. As a result of the investigations, over 12,000 personnel were discharged due to their sexual orientation since 1993, even though they served faithfully to their country. Following the Crusades in the early 14th century, those in the Knights Templar were persecuted and members burned at the stake if they were accused for same-sex affairs. In the Napoleonic wars, four men aboard the British ship H.M.S. Africaine were hanged in 1816 for "buggery"; and two other crewmen were whipped for "uncleanliness" (a term describing deviant sexual behavior). Even General George Washington discharged an American soldier in 1778 for participating in homosexual acts. Though the U.S. military prohibited homosexuality by the Articles of War of 1916, the ban wasn't truly uenforced until the Second World War. Although it was the largest mobilization in U.S. history, the Army, Navy and the Selective Service System developed tests to find and exclude draftees from service if found to be homosexual: recruits were screened for body characteristics deemed feminine, effeminacy in dress, manner and an expanded rectum. By the war's end, more than 4,000 out of the 12 million men conscripted for the war effort by the government were declined for being homosexual. In Ancient Greece, homosexuality among citizens in the military was not a big deal. Spartans were actually encouraged to have relationships with other men, explained by Plato’s in his Symposium, "For love will convert the veriest coward into an inspired hero." He shed light on the fact that even though an army might be small, if it was composed of those who love each other and others whom those people loved, it would be more than a match to a larger sized army. Homosexual people have served in every war that America has fought. Today other countries like Israel, Canada and Britain allow gays to openly serve among their ranks, in Russia those who are gay would be allowed to serve in times of war. The people who refuse to lift the ban on the Military Personnel Eligibility Act of 1993 might say that the introduction of openly homosexual personnel would undermine military effectiveness, and those who were openly gay would be blackmailed or bullied while those forced to serve with homosexuals would quit in large numbers. Members of the British Ministry of Defense told The New York Times in 2007 that there had been no reported incidents of harassment, discord, blackmail, bullying, or any drop of unit cohesion or military effectiveness. The Pentagon reported that 70 percent of respondents in a survey of more than 500,000 military personnel saw little risk in repealing the policy that prevents gay and lesbian service members from serving openly. It takes about $25,000 to $50,000 to train a soldier who can then be discharged if they are found guilty of homosexuality. According to the UCLA’s Williams Institute “There are some 66,000 gays and lesbians currently serving in enforced silenceâ€. The Service-members Legal Defense Network reports that since 1994 more than 13,000 gay and lesbian troops have been fired. Critical skill shortages such as Arabic linguists, fighter pilots and doctors have been discharged solely because they were gay at a time when the military need them most while fighting two wars. According to the Government Accountability Office, hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars have been lost through the costs of investigations and discharges, and in training their replacements. Others who oppose the lift on the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell†might also point out that it would lead to sexual encounters among those in the military and increased prejudice among ranks. This is also untrue if congress makes the right calls reducing relationships between soldiers on the battlefield, while the increased prejudice could be subsided by showing that homosexuals are the same as heterosexual soldiers and that prejudice against them is just bigotry.
When President Clinton was elected to office in 1993, he set about trying to abolish the Military Personnel Eligibility Act by drafting an Executive Order which would have ordered the Secretary of Defense to eliminate the policy. This worried the members of Congress who introduced legislation which would have made the Department of Defense policy into Federal Law in which Clinton or any other President could not be able to over-ride. It was very clear that not only did Congress have enough votes to pass the law, but they had enough votes to over-ride any possible Presidential veto. Discussions were held and the legislation was dropped.
Now President Obama, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, have called for the elimination of "don't ask, don't tell policy" and must provide a rollback plan to ensure that the lift does not hurt morale, recruitment or troop readiness. Gates and Mullen noted that 92 percent of troops in a survey by the Pentagon who believed they had served with a gay person said they never saw an impact on their units' morale or effectiveness. But Congress must vote to eliminate the shortsighted and discriminatory "don't ask, don't tell" law before it can be abolished. Some on Capitol Hill, most notably Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona), and some Commanders have resisted, citing concerns about possible disruptions that could be particularly acute because of the country's involvement in two wars. The Pentagon's findings should allay those fears by a full report sent before December 1st. No-one nowadays can realistically doubt the ability of a homosexual to be as hard-working, co-ordinated, intelligent or patriotic as their heterosexual counterpart. It is therefore pure bigotry to deny those who want to join the army the opportunity to do so. If lawmakers fail to act, hard-won progress on the don't ask, don't tell" policy would have to be taken up from scratch by a new Congress. As senators discuss over the finer points of parliamentary procedure and political gain, gay men and women risk life and limb in defense of their country. The overwhelming majority of soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines don’t care about sexual orientation of their fellow service members and lawmakers in congress should respect their judgment and follow their lead.
Works CitedWebley, Kayla. "A Brief History of Gays in the Military - TIME." Breaking News,
Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com. Time Magazine, 02 Feb. 2010. Web. 4 Dec. 2010. <http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1958246,00.html>.Toles, Tom. "Gays in the Military." Washington Post - Politics, National, World &
D.C. Area News and Headlines - Washingtonpost.com. Washington Post, 14 Nov. 2010. Web. 4 Dec. 2010. <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/14/AR2010111403713.html>.Powers, Rod. "Gays in the Military - The Logistics." United States Military
Information. About.com, 22 Oct. 2010. Web. 4 Dec. 2010. <http://usmilitary.about.com/od/gaylesbians/a/gaymilitary.htm>.Liesl. "Gays in the Military." Common Sense Politics: Apply Liberally.
Sense4thecommon, 8 Jan. 2009. Web. 4 Dec. 2010. <http://sense4thecommon.blogspot.com/2008/10/gays-in-military.html>.Jones, Elliot. "Gays in the Military: Debatabase - Debate Topics and Debate
Motions." IDEA: International Debate Education Association - Debate Resources & Debate Tools. International Debate Education Association, 20 Aug. 2009. Web. 4 Dec. 2010. <http://www.idebate.org/debatabase/topic_details.php?topicID=103>.Flaherty, Anne. "McCain, Others Say Military Gays Study Is Biased - Yahoo!
News." The Top News Headlines on Current Events from Yahoo! News. Yahoo News, 2 Dec. 2010. Web. 4 Dec. 2010. <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101202/ap_on_go_co/us_gays_in_military>.
treec_cynda1. DADT was a GREAT idea. It doesn't make it illegal for gays to serve, it makes illegal for gays who are serving to acknowledge that fact publicly.
2. Who here would like to be shooting at terrorists and have someone randomly walk up to you and say?:
3. In response to this I know I won't be joining the US military until DADT gets back in place.
1. It isn't, not by a long shot
2. Why would that make a difference, are hetero's better shots than gays?
3. I'm sure they're devistated at the loss
treec_cynda · #47It doesn't make it illegal for gays to serve,
[quote author=Wikipedia]
while barring those who are openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual from military service.[/quote]Can you imagine you in the military? Your enemies might suddenly scream I'M GAAAAAAY and you'll be so disturbed you won't be able to shoot right.
If I was in the military and someone on MY SIDE said "I'm gay," I would get thrown out of the military for friendly fire.
If I was in the military and someone on the enemy side said "I'm gay," I would end up dead because I was spending more time reloading than shooting.
So it's a problem (for me at least) both ways.
D
Replying to #51
- That's your issue, if you would kill a fellow soldier just because they're gay. That's homophobia. And betrayal. Sad.
- That's also your problem. Just because you're so against gays that you would waste more bullets than needed to kill proves nothing.
- Glad you understand you have a problem.
I am sure glad you are not in the military, and will not be due to DADT being repealed.. I'm sure they don't need anyone like you there.
treec_cynda · #51If I was in the military and someone on MY SIDE said "I'm gay," I would get thrown out of the military for friendly fire.
If I was in the military and someone on the enemy side said "I'm gay," I would end up dead because I was spending more time reloading than shooting.
So it's a problem (for me at least) both ways.
ur a sad and pathetic human being who needs extensive psychiatric help. do you listen to yourself?
treec_cynda · #51If I was in the military and someone on MY SIDE said "I'm gay," I would get thrown out of the military for friendly fire.
If I was in the military and someone on the enemy side said "I'm gay," I would end up dead because I was spending more time reloading than shooting.
So it's a problem (for me at least) both ways.
Even though I'd rather the gays not reveal themselves, Im not going to shoot my own fellow soliders, what you just said was absolutly childish, What are you, 10?
Now I may of once being a homophobe, I learnt that they arent gonna rape your scrawny ass, it just means they'll act funny, if they do, well there are LEGAL ways of fighting back, or a removal of dick if you catch them...
Regardless, grow the hell up, it's hicks like you that make the army's in all countries look like gun toting hicks.
treec_cynda · #51If I was in the military and someone on MY SIDE said "I'm gay," I would get thrown out of the military for friendly fire.
If I was in the military and someone on the enemy side said "I'm gay," I would end up dead because I was spending more time reloading than shooting.
So it's a problem (for me at least) both ways.
Wow, I thought such blatant homophobia was from the Middle Ages.
Gayness is kewl man, and if it's not kewl on your agenda, plug your ass in and wear a chastity belt.
Faggot.
treec_cynda · #51If I was in the military and someone on MY SIDE said "I'm gay," I would get thrown out of the military for friendly fire.
If I was in the military and someone on the enemy side said "I'm gay," I would end up dead because I was spending more time reloading than shooting.
So it's a problem (for me at least) both ways.
that was dumber than my dumbest post
for that you get:
you------ vvv
me------------------------------------------------------^^^
Replying to #56
In that case, what was your dumbest post?
Replying to #57
that's for me to know and you to find out
treec_cynda · #51If I was in the military and someone on MY SIDE said "I'm gay," I would get thrown out of the military for friendly fire.
If I was in the military and someone on the enemy side said "I'm gay," I would end up dead because I was spending more time reloading than shooting.
So it's a problem (for me at least) both ways.
It's ok, you can come out of the closet.
We won't judge you bro...
