Air Asia was missing and found!

At 25-30m, it should be relatively easy. Unlike what happened with Adam Air that fell into one of the deepest trough in the world located in the Celebes (Sulawesi) sea. The navy will deploy 21 divers from it's PASKAS team (the equivalent to USA's SEAL) to begin documenting and salvaging bodies.Clearing up some mistakes/misperception;
[list type=decimal]
[*]SAR & KNKT (KNKT is the equivalent to USA's NTSB) said the ELT (emergency location transmitter) not detected because of poor maintenance.
This is not true. ELT is suppose to activate automatically if it is submerged in water/sea water or if there's an impact of minimum 1.5 G-Force, or explosion. It is now believed, the plane suffered total engine loss and electrical failure mid-air when it got caught in the cumulus nimbus cloud, free fall then glided 10Km from when it was loss from radar, plunges into the sea of Pangkal Ambun before breaking inside the water. Because of no mid air impact, and electrical failure, and the plane didn't hit the water at above 1.5 G-Force, it's now believed the ELT device wasn't triggered to send distress signal, before becoming inactive/damaged.[*]The vice-president said the pilot requested to turn left, and was given the go-ahead by the ATC, but was denied when it ask to climb to 38.000 ft.
This is wrong because of the VP's broken English explanation. Jakarta ATC had given the go-ahead for the plane to turn left, when it ask to climb to 38.000 ft. ATC wasn't able to respond because communication was lost. The plane didn't get the chance to climb from 32.000 ft even if ATC grant it or not. According to an ATC spokesperson, at that time of QZ8501's request to climb to 38.000ft, at least 5 other planes were already flying at 38.000ft.[*]SAR & KNKT think the plane might have disintegrate mid-air due to being spun inside the cortex of the cumulus nimbus cloud.
This is no longer viewed as right, because the plane broke upon impact with water. Thus why the plane pieces are concentrated around where the plane is now lying.[*]Did it really glided before hitting the water?
Yes, because the witness (Mr. Fendy) who was fixing his roof around that time, clearly saw a plane flying extremely low in it's correct position, thus why he said "I saw it flying very low in the opposite direction of the airport, very unusual for a plane that is about to land or take off. Note that this man's house is under the flight path of planes taking off and landing to Pangkal Ambun. So he is aware about the height; how high/low a plane heading in or out of the airport should be from his house.[*]Australian P3 Orion plane has detected a signal around the area on Monday 29th Dec. Why only now they found it?
That's because the KNKT and SAR dismissed this report, after sending another plane to check and found nothing from the air, while a ship supposedly sent there didn't actually go there due to rough sea condition (+/- 2m of wave). Only after a fisherman (Mr. Rahmad) and the man fixing his roof reported to their village chief, who in turn brought him to the navy stationed there, did they take it more seriously.[*]Could there have been survivors had they found the location sooner?
Unlikely. From the start the search team are aware about this, despite some of them kept speaking to the public that the likelihood of survivors still high (only the President and Vice-President openly stated the worst is inevitable). In fact most of them believe the plane had exploded/disintegrated mid-air due to being spun in the storm cloud. Base on current early findings from the bodies found so far, it seems the passengers and crew had all passed out due to being spun in the cloud, the plane glided down on its own, plunges into the sea, broke, and everyone on board died of drowning at 25m-30m depth, before some of the bodies floated up after becoming loose from it's safety belt.
[/list]

M.AzaryPika3172Next job is, finding all passengers, crews etc...

What's next would be for the forensics team to collect as much data and samples from families and friends of the decease; photo, unique body characteristics/marks, cloths worn at the time of departure, etc. for them to match with the bodies collected. The bodies will be temporarily stored in a local hospital before sending down to Surabaya. Not to mention the team will work alongside the salvage team evacuating the bodies and belongings. Then on a later day, there'll be another team to salvage the wreckage, to find out the actual cause of the incident, and other details such as what happened in the cockpit.

Replying to #21

Such devices are designed to withstand VERY severe impacts without damage, it is unlikely to have been damaged beyond operation.

Replying to #21

This is also wrong. The pilot requested permission to deviate left, this was immediately granted and actioned. He then requested clearance to FL380 (38k feet), and ATC had to confer with Singapore. After this the pilot was cleared to FL340, NOT the requested FL380, but did not acknowledge.

Replying to #21

Unpowered airliners in the hands of competent pilots can glide for significant distances, it's a case of carefully controlling the pitch so that the airspeed remains high enough to keep the wings working. The exact ratio varies but its usually a number of miles per thousand feet of height. If the pilots aren't competent then you get a repeat of what happened to AF447, where they kept trying to climb until the angle of attack became so acute that the wings were no longer able to hold the plane up.

Replying to #21

This is unacceptable.[quote="Prectorian"]

• Could there have been survivors had they found the location sooner?
  [/quote]No. they would have died on impact, the crash was unsurvivable. If the pilots had been able to land the plane level on the water without it breaking up (a near impossible task even in perfect conditions), then there would have been survivors. The fact the plane hit the water hard enough for it to break up made the crash unsurvivable.

  Replying to #21

  The investigation will take upwards of six months, and probably a year or two.

Replying to #22

And that would also means it can "not function" if not so severe impact happened. As a witness did claim saw it glided towards the sea.

Replying to #22

I've not heard of it being cleared to FL340. What I heard (as I spoke the language) from the ATC's spokesperson interviewed, his subordinate gave permission to deviate left (but does not know if the pilot then turn left or not, because small deviation won't be visually clear on radar), the pilot upon receiving that permission, then requested to climb up to 38.000 ft. This request was said never cleared by ATC because the communication got cut off before any permission was granted or rejected. The last plane position read shows it didn't deviate from it's 32.000 ft. position. However, the ATC spokesperson did said, at the time of the request to climb up to 38.000 ft., there were at least 5 other planes in the vicinity flying at 38.000 ft. (though unclear if those planes are directly above it or not). In any case, according to a senior pilot who flies that route, planes heading towards Singapore from Surabaya are allow to fly at 'even' height; e.g. 32.000, 34.000, 36.000, etc., while those heading from Singapore to Surabaya flies at 'odd' height; e.g. 31.000, 33.000, etc. This to avoid head on collision. Even if let's say it's true the ATC cleared it to 40.000 ft., the plane won't made it up since the storm cloud's system is already directly in it's path, and commercial planes as you know can't climb fast enough or even steep enough at short distance. So, I kind of doubt such clearance was given, but again, I'm not sure because I've not heard of such remarks made by any spokesperson interviewed by the national tv.Side note;
Pilot is Indonesian, he most likely spoke with the ATC in Indonesian language, his co-pilot/first officer is French, so he must have communicated with the pilot and ATC in English, as likely neither the pilot nor ATC understand French as it is not a commonly use language in Indonesia. This in itself could cause misunderstandings.ATC's spokesperson did mentioned about communicating with Singapore's Changi Airport ATC regarding the sudden loss of communication with the plane some 30 minutes after the plane actually went missing. ATC handling a certain sector as far as I know has the right to decide with the pilots what and where it should do or go as necessary without first conferring with the destination airport.

Replying to #22

The pilots, along with everyone on board seems to have already fainted by the time that plane glided above the witness' location. This remark was made a senior pilot not my personal opinion or deduction, he explained that as bitter as it is to the ears, those on board died of drowning while unconscious not the impact to the sea. Even if any of them were still awake, they would be too dazed to act accordingly. If the pilots was still 'sane'/'awake' and was still controlling the plane as it glides into the sea without other means of making much changes, the chances of them making it through is slim under such dire weather. But just a note, the pilot was an ex F-16 senior pilot who decided to retire early, with over 20.000 hours of commercial/civilian plane clocked, some 7000 hours of it spent with Air Asia, the rest was with Merparti Air (this airlines recently went out of business).On a side note;
The plane has a fly by wire ability, glide thanks to it's wings shape, and the ability to correct itself/level itself. But to do this, the plane needs power. So, it's kind of contradicting if the plane right it's position without power unless someone manually did so.

Replying to #22

Yes. Unacceptable. However had it been immediately followed up, the end result would still be the same. No one survived. Remember, the P3 Orion was deployed and detected the signal on Monday 29th, at around 07:00. The plane itself went down 24 hours earlier.

Replying to #22

That's right. Landing on a rough sea condition is impossible. At that time, the sea was going through bad weather with waves up to 2m high. In fact, around the time the crash site was located, the gulf where the plane lies was still under 2-3m high wave. Even if let's say someone did survived and managed to escape, being 5Km from land under such wave condition, on top of being dazed due to the impact and spun in the clouds, chances of them surviving is practically without any doubt zero. If the pilots was still 'sane' at the time the plane glided towards the earth, chances of surviving the ordeal was if it crash onto land.

Replying to #22

Yes, true. And that too might not be conclusive enough to know the whole story.Another side note:
The spokespersons of each parties involved in this case excluding Tony Fernandes (CEO of Air Asia), who did address the foreign press in English, doesn't speak proper English. E.g. the vice president's statement about the same matter differs between the things he said in Indonesian from what he said in English. This is understandable because most of them doesn't speak proper English. Thus it becomes necessary for the foreign reporters to cross check their English statement against their Indonesian statement. The mistakes in their statements wasn't intentional, rather because of their lack of English.

Replying to #23

they're triggered by contact with water, not impact. Gliding does not preclude a hard impact, particularly when water landings are involved, as the plane can cartwheel or flip over on contact with the surface.

Replying to #23

he was not cleared to FL380 because there were other aircraft in the vicinity at FL380, correct, and it does not matter if the other planes were directly above or not, as there is a legal minimum separation that must be maintained. Negotiations took place with singapore because presumably they had responsibility for the sector the flight was heading towards at the time, and therefore were aware of any traffic heading towards Indonesian ATC sector at FL380, which was not yet visible on Indonesian ATC radar.It is believed they were in the storm system at that point and the pilot was wanting to climb through it. He was cleared to FL340, he did not acknowledge the clearance given, so it is likely that the aircraft was already in trouble at that point and the pilot was unable to acknowledge.

Replying to #23

My understanding is that English is almost always used between pilots and ATC because it's almost universal. Other aircraft need to be able to understand conversations also.

Replying to #23

Airliners have supplementary oxygen if there is a loss of cabin pressure, and even if they had passed out due to lack of oxygen they would have fully regained consciousness once the plane descended past 8000 feet. The simple fact the plane was gliding strongly suggests someone was in control of it. Airliners cant glide by themselves.

Replying to #23

Fly by wire simply means the pilot isn't directly connected to the control surfaces, he tells a computer to do something and its the computer that actually carries out the action by means of electronic signalling rather than cables and pulleys or hydraulics. It doesn't make the aircraft capable of handling itself in an extraordinary situation. When things start going weird on an aircraft, the automatic systems shut down.

Replying to #23

Indeed, in this incident it would not have changed the outcome, but in a different incident, it may have. That delay could have had fatal consequences if everyone wasn't already dead.

what is with asians and crashing planes

Replying to #25

Because of some random problems likes bad weather, shooting for enemies etc...Meanwhile, this website gives you information about all planes crashes, missing etc... in entire world!http://planecrashinfo.comEDIT:- Fixed URL website!

Loonylion · #24they're triggered by contact with water, not impact. Gliding does not preclude a hard impact, particularly when water landings are involved, as the plane can cartwheel or flip over on contact with the surface.

Right, one of the needed triggers to activate the ELT is water/liquid. But in this case both ELT on-board wasn't triggered. I'm sure the KNKT, Air Asia, and Airbus would be most interested in finding out why. One aviation expert asked, said in an interview, there is possibilities the ELT on-board did try sending distress signal, but failed to transmit because of the antenna coming off due to violent turbulence. No further confirmation about what exactly caused the failure so far since vital plane parts hasn't been recovered.

Loonylion · #24he was not cleared to FL380 because there were other aircraft in the vicinity at FL380, correct, and it does not matter if the other planes were directly above or not, as there is a legal minimum separation that must be maintained. Negotiations took place with singapore because presumably they had responsibility for the sector the flight was heading towards at the time, and therefore were aware of any traffic heading towards Indonesian ATC sector at FL380, which was not yet visible on Indonesian ATC radar.

I not sure how large the flight sector Jakarta's ATC control, but assuming just based on the distance Jakarta is from Singapore, I think there is at least 1 more ATC the plane has to communicate with before being passed to Singapore's ATC, I might be wrong, maybe from Jakarta ATC, next to communicate with it is with Singapore. I can't be sure. However, from what a pilot interviewed said yesterday, civilian planes has to maintain at least 200 ft. height apart, one above the other, didn't mention about how must distance each has to maintain next to each other or when they're flying in a file.

Loonylion · #24It is believed they were in the storm system at that point and the pilot was wanting to climb through it. He was cleared to FL340, he did not acknowledge the clearance given, so it is likely that the aircraft was already in trouble at that point and the pilot was unable to acknowledge.

Yes they were, they were at least closing in to the core of the system when they fail to evade. Again, a sport plane pilot interviewed explained that base on his personal experience, when he accidentally got caught in the cumulus nimbus cloud, his communication system failed, the plane was difficult to control, instruments going crazy, plane spun following the direction of the wind (like being in a tornado), and disorientation sets in. He said it felt something like being in a coke bottle being shaken vigorously.

Loonylion · #24My understanding is that English is almost always used between pilots and ATC because it's almost universal. Other aircraft need to be able to understand conversations also.

Yes true, universally English is the language in use. However in some cases, if the pilot knows whoever is behind the ATC control, they might communicate in a language other than English. After all what's most important is that all parties must always communicate in ways everyone understand without causing misinterpretation; such includes if the pilot wish to divert from it's position to the left, right, up, down, etc. or if the ATC requires the pilot to divert, all must be acknowledge by both sides.

Loonylion · #24Airliners have supplementary oxygen if there is a loss of cabin pressure, and even if they had passed out due to lack of oxygen they would have fully regained consciousness once the plane descended past 8000 feet. The simple fact the plane was gliding strongly suggests someone was in control of it. Airliners cant glide by themselves.

No, that's true. But the plane is said to does have ability to correct itself or at least warn the pilots to correct it manually, e.g. if the pilot turn the angle to much causing the plane to tilt significantly. However in the case of this plane, it's hard to tell if the pilots were flying it without power up to the time it crash into the sea or if they were all too dazed or fainted when the glide into the sea occurred. We'll know exactly after a conclusive investigation is performed.

Loonylion · #24Fly by wire simply means the pilot isn't directly connected to the control surfaces, he tells a computer to do something and its the computer that actually carries out the action by means of electronic signalling rather than cables and pulleys or hydraulics. It doesn't make the aircraft capable of handling itself in an extraordinary situation. When things start going weird on an aircraft, the automatic systems shut down.

But what if the planes' engines are dead due to being peppered by hail and or ice? The plane would surely be at the mercy of the elements with the pilots unable to do much other than try to get the powers going again or simply steer the flaps hoping to make it turn/tilt while gliding helplessly. I think even if that is true, the plane would be similar to a paper plane, uncontrollable and at the mercy of the wind it's flying through.

Loonylion · #24Indeed, in this incident it would not have changed the outcome, but in a different incident, it may have. That delay could have had fatal consequences if everyone wasn't already dead.

True, and there is in fact some speculation on "what if" going on as according to one unconfirmed account mentioned in one news tv, citing that one of the bodies salvaged so far seems to have been alive post-impact and likely to have died of drowning either on his/her way out of the sinking plane or because of being tossed in the 2-3m high wave (5Km from the nearest shore). Again it's unconfirmed as up to this minute, all 6 bodies found are still on-board a military ship that is still on-site, with 1 of which is a stewardess.On another matter;
Some netizen found this; CLICK HERE.
Unfortunately I don't understand what was actually written on the original Chinese blog. But as explained, the blog was posted by what is believed to be a Chinese man, who claim to have predicted the incident 13 days before it happened, as he somehow has insider information that a shady group is targeting the airlines. Of cause, this might or might not be hoax, in any case people thinks this guy and this so call group is trying to take credit for the loss of 3 Malaysian owned planes.As for new update;
The forensic team has been able to collect at least 109 samples from families, next of kin, and friends. Of the 162 on board, there was 5 families in it who are related to each other. These 5 are bothers and sister who decided to go on vacation together with their husbands, wives, and children. 1 whole family line gone, it would be up to their spouses' families to take care of gathering forensic samples at their now empty homes.The SAR and KNKT has decided to gather all deceased in the Bhayangkara Hospital (a police owned hospital) in Pangkal Ambun, before flying them via Pangkal Ambun's military airport which can accommodate C-230 Hercules planes to another Bhayangkara Hospital in Surabaya. The crisis center in Surabaya airport earlier been closed and moved to the hospital, where the families are to submit the forensic samples required; photo, dental record from the deceased known dentist, DNA from articles found in the deceased homes, or even the next of kin's DNA samples. And the hospital will also accommodate all 162 bodies for visual identification by their next of kin and or friends.

Replying to #27

He didn't mention it because it varies depending on the size of the planes involved and how many engines they have. Bigger aircraft or aircraft with more engines need more separation.

Replying to #27

a commercial airliner is a very different beast to a light aircraft...

Replying to #27

. Only if the aircraft is operating in Normal Law. Given the circumstances, I very much doubt it was. It was almost certainly in Alternate Law, and possibly even Direct Law or Mechanical Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_control_modes)

Replying to #27

It's fairly conclusive it was being flown without power, it was the right way up, it was level, and it was gliding. Someone was in control of it. Gliding an airliner is a very manual process.

Replying to #27

They're designed to withstand that.

Replying to #27

The daily mail has a long history of manipulating the truth or even completely fabricating stories in order to sell their newspaper, I wouldn't put much stock in what they have to say about anything other than football results.

Replying to #28

I guess you're right. It'd be too broad to explain this in an interview as different plane size combination flying on the same lane will result to different distance apart from each other requirements.

Replying to #28

It's sad really to think they didn't have the ability to maneuver under such dire condition, like paper plane or a boat without sail/paddle, at the mercy of wherever the elements take them. In this case into a raging sea. Had they been able to set it closer to shore or even hard land on land, chances of survivors could be higher as compared to none.

Replying to #28

But what if something went into the engines, such as hail stones; it could easily damage the blades inside the jet engine and in turn damage the engine itself, causing it to malfunction or stop altogether. Then there's also the possibilities of a fatal lightning strike, short circuiting the plane's electrical system. All this are circumstantial assumption, since no one can be sure what did went wrong before the black boxes are found and analyzed.

Replying to #28

The Daily Mail was just re-reporting it. The actual news came in Chinese in China. I got a glimpse of the blog, and the Chinese's news about this. But I don't understand anything on what was written in both the blog and news. Someone brought this to my attention, and later I found it was reported in the Daily Mail, which I linked.Well, here's the latest update;
1. A total of 7 corpses been recovered (they were found floating) so far; 4 male, 3 female. With only 3 been identifiable so far.
2. 2 of the identified corpses been flown to Surabaya, and taken to the Police's Bhayangkara Hospital.
3. The 2 corpses are still in the mortuary, undergoing cleaning/dressing while forensics re-check their identities.
4. The remaining 5 corpses are still on board the military vessel in the crash site.
5. Wave is reported at 2 - 5m in height for nearly the whole day today, thus the KOPASKAS (the equivalent to USA's Navy SEAL) didn't
get the go ahead to dive. Thus no attempt was made to dive to see the wreckage condition or recover anything underwater.
6. They did however managed to recover more articles brought up by the current; luggage, bags, emergency equipment, etc.
7. The government has requested additional aid from USA, Britain, South Korea, and China in recovering the corpses and wreckage.
8. Everyone involved in the recovery effort hopes to get their first chance to dive into the wreckage by tomorrow. A total of 42 divers
from that special force will take turn diving into the 30m water. They plan to chart and tag the wreckage, before going ahead with
recovering the corpses.
9. Forensics warned that if the bodies aren't recovered from the water soon (4 days since drowning), it will start to decay, starting with
the softer tissues such as face area and fingers. The loss of these softer tissues could be sooner if marine life plays a part by feeding
on them. Also the eyes might even pop out it's sockets. In fact, 3 of those 7 bodies recovered, was reported to be difficult to
recognize because parts of their face tissues already gone; either eaten by fish or scraped off by floating debris or coral.

Replying to #29

an unpowered airliner can be turned, it might not be a good idea, but it can be done. You have to balance out the benefits of every action with the costs, you would lose airspeed, you would lose altitude, you would dramatically reduce your glide range. And you might stall in the process.

Replying to #29

The turbine blades are made of titanium, hailstones wouldn't touch them. Look up BA flight 9, it flew through a cloud of volcanic ash (basically rock dust, and actually in the same region as this fight was in), the engines stopped, they glided out of the cloud, 3 of the 4 engines started again, and the plane landed safely at Jakarta.

Replying to #29

Fun fact: planes are immune to lightning strikes. The skin of the aircraft forms a faraday cage, protecting the electronics and people inside it from the electricity outside. Also lightning is looking for a path to ground, an aircraft in flight provides no path to ground and therefore the lightning will go around the aircraft (the charge will flow over the surface of the aircraft) rather than through it.

If so, then it's difficult to guess what went wrong before the authorities recovered the black boxes and analyze it's contents. Because to analyze base on the plane parts collected would be more difficult, especially since at sea, some would either have been swept by the surface wave and or underwater current.Now with the corpses recovery, the team is facing difficulties, with the sea at current condition, the ocean floor could be too cloudy.Edit:Latest update states, 9 bodies recovered so far with 6 of them been flown to Surabaya. 2 of the 6 bodies has finished autopsy, while another 1 will soon follow, the rest though will take longer as are harder to distinguish. Earlier in the morning, Singapore's Hercules C-230 plane had landed in Pangkal Ambun Naval Airport with 2 remote control submersible. The submersible will be deployed soonest possible because until now, no KOPASKA personnel been able to dive in due to still raging sea condition. Sometimes I wonder why they are called special forces similar to NAVY SEAL. ::) I mean, SEALs dare to dive in raging freezing Artic sea, this one doesn't. They are wasting 5 days already, by now the bodies down there are likely hard to recognize as their soft tissues disintegrate from their bodies. In any case, Japan has sent 340 personnel to assist, they are waiting in Malaysia for the Indonesian government to allow them to enter.

New Update:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Already some 30 corpses been recovered so far. 4 has been identified and returned to their family or next of kin for burial or cremation.
[*]Search team claimed to have located the exact where about of the larger wreckage pieces lying at the bottom of the 30m sea bed.
[*]Russia has join the search effort since yesterday noon, with Japan, France, and China to follow soon. So now besides Indonesia, the effort is being assisted by Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea, Australia, United States of America, and Russia.
[*]Part of the team has been reassigned to start locating the black boxes. Which will be read and analyze in Indonesia, involving Airbus, United States of America, and probably 1 other country yet decided.
[*]The last 8 corpses recovered yesterday was said to be in the process of intermediate to advance decomposition, specifically to the face and hand area. Most likely already skeleton with little flesh left.[/list]On another related matter;
[list type=decimal]
[*]The Ministry of Transportation along with it's sub-division, Directorate General of Air Transport, has decided to temporarily freeze Air Asia's Surabaya-Singapore route permit until a conclusive investigation is completed and announce to the general public. This is a huge blow for Air Asia as they will not only lose potential sales but will have to refund in full amount to those who had purchased tickets in advance. This move also causes quite a frenzy because regular customers and potential customers of the airlines in Indonesia are reconsidering whether they should choose to fly with other airlines. Some paranoid people would immediately omit Air Asia as their potential choice.
[*]Among the reasoning behind the temporary permit freeze is due to claim by the Meteorological and Geophysical Board that Air Asia didn't collect the weather report required by them to brief the pilots on current weather condition. The board is in charge of preparing precise weather report and prediction every 3 hourly for all airlines serving Indonesia's air space. But they did also acknowledge, international airlines do not have obligation to take reports prepared by them, as airlines may also rely on reports prepared by other appointed weather agencies as long as those agencies are among those approved by the international aviation association.
[*]And the other reason is in relation to the Minister's unannounced visit to Air Asia's Jakarta office, he found that the Flight Operation Officer in charge of preparing the plane (documents, calculate needed fuel, flight plan, etc.) and briefing the pilots before flights, didn't fulfill all his/her obligation, the officer was found to have often skip informing the weather report in the route the pilot will be travelling. There's not yet enough evidence to prove the officer always ignore this SOP, but during the Minister's visit, he at least found that step skipped.
[*]Lastly, the reason behind the freeze is in relation to this downed QZ8501 - 05:30 A.M. flight, the Directorate of Air Transport claim to have found evidence that this early Sunday morning flight to have bridged the permit given. Citing Air Asia was given permit by the Ministry to serve Surabaya-Singapore route for only 3 days in a week; with Sunday not one of them. Furthermore, the plane was actually scheduled to fly at around 07:30 A.M. but had shifted the schedule to an earlier time. And the Directorate claim, this plane does not have the permit to fly as it was unscheduled. He further also explains airlines serving in Indonesia, requires 2 permits; 1. permit issued by the Ministry regarding the route allocation and days of service allocation, 2. permit issued by the airport authorities connecting the route granted by the ministry. The directorate claim, Air Asia violates the first permit. However this matter is now being debated by senior pilots from the pilots association and other aviation experts, they are saying that despite the fact the Ministry did only gave Air Asia a 3 day service slot serving that route, in reality, planes do get the permit to fly extra day(s) as long as the airlines request in advance for additional schedule and the airport authorities grants it. They further argue that the Ministry's and Directorate's claim that the plane was flying unscheduled and unannounced is very impossible. Planes flying from official airports will always require advance coordination with the related authorities, that includes the destination airport. And in relation to the claim by the weather agency, they also say it's impossible the pilot or any professional pilot will ignore weather reports before flying, they will always check the report before agreeing to fly the route, and they have the prerogative to delay or cancel the flight if they feel the condition is not safe. And further states, the pilot of the downed plane is a highly trained man, who graduated top in his class during his days flying F-5 and F-16, not to mention his long years serving commercial planes such as Adam Air, Merpati Air, and Air Asia. Even if he forgot to check on it, the first officer (co-pilot) will certainly remind him, as none the less they have a check list to fill every time before flying.[/list]Whatever the case is, I'd certainly be interested to know what the final verdict be in the near future once the black boxes are recovered and analyzed. Not to mention what Tony Fernandez will choose to do to his Flight Operation Officers who are found negligence in following standard procedures in informing pilots of the weather condition, not to mention to his Regional President Director, because the temporary permit freeze for this route means he's losing millions of dollars in income, not to mention if the final finding points to mismanagement, Air Asia Indonesia might have it's permits revoked. Just a note, passengers going in and out of Singapore - Indonesia makes up the largest portion of people movement by plane for both nation's international airports, and possibly the largest market in ASEAN. Of the around 1000 flights in a single day served by Jakarta's Soekarno-Hatta International Airport terminal 2 and 3, 90% of it are flights connecting Singapore and Jakarta. The same can be said for Surabaya's Juanda International Airport, as it is the connecting hub for Indonesian living in the eastern part of the country to fly to and from Singapore, besides Makassar International Airport and Bali International Airport. It certainly will be a huge blow for Tony and his Air Asia company if they can no longer do business in Indonesia. Such termination had happened in the past to several prominent domestic airlines, notably the most famous was sanction to Adam Air, shortly after the loss of over 200 of it's passengers after it made an unannounced diversion, which ended up in a disaster. The plane to date still lies at the bottom of the trough in Palu, Sulawesi, at a depth of around 2000m. Only the black boxes was recovered with the help of France, and investigation claim the pilot was suicidal.

New:1. Some 40 bodies been found with some already identified.
2. Tail portion of the plane found some 30Km from last radar signal spot, but not yet recovered.
3. Families of the deceased passengers are entitled to receive at least Rp.125.000.000.000 (USD1.00 = IDR12.500).
4. Recovered bodies are in advance decomposition stage, causing difficulties in identifying who they are.
5. Aviation experts are doubtful with the Ministry of Transportation's claim that Air Asia's Dec 28th 2015 05:30 A.M. flight was illegal.
6. Aviation experts are also doubtful the FOO (Flight Operation Officer) didn't brief the pilot before flight.
7. The Ministry of Transportation has decided to shift their accusation to "why and who gave the go ahead to move the flight from 07:30 to 05:30?"

NEWS FLASH UPDATES!Signals Have Been Detected From the AirAsia Jet’s Data Recordershttp://time.com/3660969/airasia-qz8501-missing-jet-black-boxes-pingsTime to finding black box which was found underwater, just near to aircraft tail.

Sound travel in water, so getting an exact position of the sound source is tricky.
In any case, the tail end has been retrieved using a combination of crane and inflatable balloons from a depth of 30m.
Haven't heard of them finding more corpses, but there's been report of possible location for the main structure.

Update:FDR found and retrieved. Team are still searching for CDR CVR believed to be lying not far from where the FDR was at 30m depth. Also at least 48 bodies been retrieved along with several articles belonging to the plane & passengers.

I think you mean CVR not CDR. CVR is cockpit voice recorder.

Replying to #37

Yes, I mean that. Thanks for the point out.Edit:This morning CVR been found under wing wreckage, and been retrieved. FDR has already flown to the KNKT head quarter in Jakarta, where the lab there will process it. Once both recorders' data are extracted, a multi-nation team will work together and analyse it. From raw data to final conclusion, it is estimated will take a year. But judging from how the wreckage been dispersed, it is believed the plane blew up before or upon impact with sea surface somewhere around the largest plane''s chunk location.

Analysis of the FDR so far suggests the PF (pilot flying, the guy in control of the aircraft at any given moment) attempted to climb through the storm at a rate of 6000 feet per minute, which is extremely high, and stalled the aircraft.This is showing alarming similarities to AF447, which stalled because they kept trying to climb, and crashed because the flight crew did not identify the fact the plane was in a stall condition and had not been trained in how to correct stall conditions.

Might I add that the analysis mentioned by the minister was still in it's preliminary stage, it's not conclusive yet. What the minister said in his meeting with the members of parliament, was based on initial findings from initial reading of the data recorders. They still has a long way to go to rule out and conclude what did and what didn't happened, and why. So far they are only certain that the plane wasn't under any terrorist attack based only on the conversation/noise in the cockpit and cabin, and that those inside the cockpit were only the pilots. They hasn't concluded anything about other possibilities, such include instrument failure when it entered the cumulus nimbus cloud that it had desperately tried to avoid.I'm sure pilots been trained to deal with various emergency scenarios. However, we all know, people reacts differently in drills and real life threatening situation. They may be in control and react accordingly during drills, but could be crippled by panic when face with real situation which they had been trained to deal.My guess are; I'm sure the pilots were aware commercial planes are built to climb at a rate of 1000ft/m-2000ft/m, even most military planes don't climb at a rate exceeding 6000 ft/m. I think both pilots were in a state of panic and disoriented. They probably tried to climb to 40.000ft from 32.000ft at an angle that would take it to that height with the least time and distant. But due to being inside the epicenter of the cumulus nimbus, the plane was likely tilted to an even steeper elevation by the elements, and so was the speed further boosted by the gust, which resulted to unrecoverable stall. Or, maybe the FDR had recorded wrong reading due to the instruments malfunctioned while fighting to escape the cloud's system.